CCV forum sounds like a clan meeting to some

[integrityticket]

From the chatlist -
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:04:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Meg Miller
Subject: Lucier makes the right decisions.

George Lucier "backs out" of CITIZEN FORUM? Backs out or is smart enough to see a set up coming?

Is that really a Citizen Forum?  Sounds like a clan meeting to me.  Some of the groups that were advertising this meeting and planning on attending are not full of citizens from Chatham County.
They are using  this forum and Chatham County to promote their paranoid racist agenda.

I think Mr. Lucier "figured that out" and decided to avoid giving any more credence to this "cause" by attending.  Good choice.

I read it all. I've been following it all.  It is the main reason I finally discontinued my association with the Chatham Co. Bulletin Board, which has become a hate mongering bitch session.
People wait in the wings to jump on the latest bandwagon, and this "cause" is just the latest.
Now its being used by "outsiders" to spread their good will.

Isn't there another BB out there that serves Chatham and shines a more positive, informed light?
I'd love to know.

Meg

[chathambooks]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Heather Johnson <chathambooks@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 6:14 AM
Subject: Response to George Lucier forum withdrawl
To: "chatlist@bellsouth.net" <chatlist@bellsouth.net>


The Chatham Conservative Voice held our Community Forum on the ICE Resolution last evening. We have been working hard to thoroughly research the resolution and the process by which it was drafted.

Clearly with Lucier backing out at the last minute, the meeting also became a rally cry for open government! For this group of elected officials to decline an opportunity to come before the people of Chatham, even if we don't agree with them, says a lot about who they are willing to take input from. This same group of elected officials campaigned on platforms of open government.

I received the same flyers from outside groups the commissioners did. I contacted the group that sent the flyer immediately and demanded they not come, that our Forum was not on 287G and that we wanted to hear from Chatham citizens only! I am quite certain the same concern was not extended on their parts, since an urgent request went out for the input session last Monday, where special interest groups and people from outside our county crowded the courthouse and gave MORE input on the resolution. They were waving signs saying STOP RACISM and the speakers likened those opposing the resolution to nazis. Those who spoke in opposition to the resolution were hissed and yelled at during their speeches and Lucier had to stop the meeting to call it back to order.

Our County Commissioners drafted a resolution that states their refusal to cooperate in enforcing laws that would deport illegal aliens that COMMIT CRIMES. This resolution displays a lack of respect for our law enforcement officers and has divided our community. Special Interest Groups like the ACLU, Hispanic Liason, Southern Poverty Law Center and Southern Coalition for Social Justice helped draft the resolution. As CCV has researched the minutes of their 9 months of meetings, we find that there was a decision made not to release this information to the public until after the resolution passed.

George Lucier told me that this issue is not "that important" to him. He told me he believes CCV is being disingenuous holding our meeting instead of focusing on other county issues. What should that tell you? Why does he insist we should discuss the matter in private? He knows how CCV feel about this. The citizens have a right to learn about the issue the BOC and HRC would like to be so quiet about. Just because they say we should be done discussing this matter does not mean that the citizens are ready for that.

The citizens demand that the BOC withdraw this resolution and we will not rest until they do.

[piper_chuck]

From the chatlist -
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:04:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Meg Miller
Subject: Lucier makes the right decisions.

George Lucier "backs out" of CITIZEN FORUM? Backs out or is smart enough to see a set up coming?

Backs out sounds about right.  He was able to come up with an excuse to not have to meet face to face with Chatham County residents and actually talk about the issue.  It seems he'd rather pontificate from his bully pulpit, give sound bites to the media, or issue position statements than have public interaction with voters. 

Is that really a Citizen Forum?  Sounds like a clan meeting to me.  Some of the groups that were advertising this meeting and planning on attending are not full of citizens from Chatham County.

One wonders how many of the people making potshots actually took the time to be involved in the meeting?

They are using  this forum and Chatham County to promote their paranoid racist agenda.

Race has nothing to do with it, it's about enforcing our laws and not rewarding law breakers. 

I think Mr. Lucier "figured that out" and decided to avoid giving any more credence to this "cause" by attending.  Good choice.

If Mr Lucier's goal is to cater to law breakers by encouraging them to come to Chatham County then yes, it was a good choice.  If Mr Lucier's goal was to send a message that he's not interested in open dialogs with Chatham County citizens then yes, it was a good choice.  If Mr Lucier's opinion is that it's good to support law breakers who steal jobs from legitimate workers, depress wages, suck government services dry, avoid taxes by lying on tax forms or working under the table, drive without licenses, and a variety of other illegal activities, then yes, it was a good decision.

OTOH, if Mr Lucier believes that elected officials should take the time to actually listen to the voters then he blew a perfect chance to hear what the people think

I read it all. I've been following it all.  It is the main reason I finally discontinued my association with the Chatham Co. Bulletin Board, which has become a hate mongering bitch session.

It's funny that most of those on the side of enforcing our laws speak to the issues while people like Ms Miller spew all sorts of hate toward people she disagrees with.  It's become clear where the hate mongering is really coming from, the anti-law enforcement, reward the law breakers camp.

People wait in the wings to jump on the latest bandwagon, and this "cause" is just the latest.
Now its being used by "outsiders" to spread their good will.

Some of us have been working on this issue behind the scenes for years.  The only reason it's become so visible now is because the commissioners felt the need to proclaim Chatham to be a safe haven for illegal aliens.

Isn't there another BB out there that serves Chatham and shines a more positive, informed light?
I'd love to know.

Meg

More "positive, informed light", or one where everyone drinks the same koolaid that you've obviously been sipping?  It is really sad how abusive people like Ms Miller can be toward people who don't share her opinion. 

[whatsup]

From the chatlist -
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:04:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Meg Miller
Subject: Lucier makes the right decisions.

George Lucier "backs out" of CITIZEN FORUM? Backs out or is smart enough to see a set up coming?

Is that really a Citizen Forum?  Sounds like a clan meeting to me.  Some of the groups that were advertising this meeting and planning on attending are not full of citizens from Chatham County.
They are using  this forum and Chatham County to promote their paranoid racist agenda.

I think Mr. Lucier "figured that out" and decided to avoid giving any more credence to this "cause" by attending.  Good choice.

I read it all. I've been following it all.  It is the main reason I finally discontinued my association with the Chatham Co. Bulletin Board, which has become a hate mongering bitch session.
People wait in the wings to jump on the latest bandwagon, and this "cause" is just the latest.
Now its being used by "outsiders" to spread their good will.

Isn't there another BB out there that serves Chatham and shines a more positive, informed light?
I'd love to know.

Meg

I didn't realize Meg could be so hateful. It's sad to see.

[Butterbean]

From piper_chuck:

"Race has nothing to do with it, it's about enforcing our laws and not rewarding law breakers."

Really? So you are a "law and order" guy? I wonder if you have the strength to apply the same standard to lawbreakers across the spectrum or do you prefer focusing on undocumented workers.

Question: You observe from a distance white workers from eastern Europe who later prove to be undocumented and documented. Would your initial reactions be the same as observing a gathering of hispanic workers who later prove to be undocumented and documented?  Be honest.

[chathambooks]

The commissioners invited special interest groups to draft this resolution. The groups that fight illegal immigration are following those special interests! They are coming to Chatham thanks to the commissioners! They should take responsibility for this.

[integrityticket]

Question: You observe from a distance white workers from eastern Europe who later prove to be undocumented and documented. Would your initial reactions be the same as observing a gathering of hispanic workers who later prove to be undocumented and documented?  Be honest.

Unequivocally yes.

[djkelly]

Question: You observe from a distance white workers from eastern Europe who later prove to be undocumented and documented. Would your initial reactions be the same as observing a gathering of hispanic workers who later prove to be undocumented and documented?  Be honest.

Unequivocally yes.

Same here.  If they're illegal, they're illegal.  It doesn't matter where they come from.

[piper_chuck]

From piper_chuck:

"Race has nothing to do with it, it's about enforcing our laws and not rewarding law breakers."

Really? So you are a "law and order" guy? I wonder if you have the strength to apply the same standard to lawbreakers across the spectrum or do you prefer focusing on undocumented workers.

Note, they're not "undocumented workers", a euphemism that's used by people trying to legitimize their presence, they're illegal aliens.  The issue isn't a lack of documentation, it's that they entered this country illegally or that they overstayed a visa.  And yes, I believe all people should obey the law.  I also believe that it's wrong to make blanket exceptions for large groups of lawbreakers, illegal aliens for example, merely because people have adopted them as underdogs or due to a misguided sense of justice.  Many of the problems illegal aliens face are things they brought on themselves when they chose to break the law. 

Question: You observe from a distance white workers from eastern Europe who later prove to be undocumented and documented. Would your initial reactions be the same as observing a gathering of hispanic workers who later prove to be undocumented and documented?  Be honest.

Yes.  Despite your attempts to turn this into a race issue, I am for enforcement of immigration laws for all ethnic groups.

Now that the race card is dead, what's next?  Are you going to accuse me of being anti-immigration? 

[munn5]

CCV has a track record - they have held community forums on other issues in recent years - specifically, Chatham County Schools (with Superintendant Ann Hart and the principal of Woods), on the new Chatham Hospital (with a hospital administrator), and with the County Commissioners candidates Sally Kost, Mike Cross, Jeffrey Starkweather, and Patric Barnes on the primary ballot (all democrats) last spring. All of those were fair, well-presented, open to everyone in the community, and a positive force for open communication about issues people were interested in.

I'm sorry that outsiders made this forum so controversial, and scared panel members away, which kept this from being another opportunity for open communication.

[Butterbean]

Ms. Books:

You enjoy throwing around the term "special interests" without defining the constituencies of any of the local, regional, state and national groups you do not like.  What are the constituencies of the "special interest groups" you invited to Chatham County?

When you aided the anti-LTT campaign what were the constituencies of the groups that funded your effort to the tune of $80,000+ dollars?

Is the John Locke Foundation local? Is Art Pope a special interest group?  We know the money and in-kind contributions don't come from you.

[girlfrompbo]

good grief butterbean, all this targeting of one particular individual is so silly.  Move on, get over it, something!

[integrityticket]

good grief butterbean, all this targeting of one particular individual is so silly. 

SOP for the Vollers.

[Butterbean]

From Chuck: "Note, they're not "undocumented workers", a euphemism that's used by people trying to legitimize their presence, they're illegal aliens.  The issue isn't a lack of documentation, it's that they entered this country illegally or that they overstayed a visa."

These aren't the only violations of immigration law that make a person an "illegal alien"-you have missed illegal marriages...

From Chuck: "And yes, I believe all people should obey the law."

Does this include taxes to the IRS and State of NC?

[girlfrompbo]

good grief butterbean, all this targeting of one particular individual is so silly. 

SOP for the Vollers.

uh, what?

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