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Author Topic: Chatham Coalition wants Chatham County to be a "Cool County"  (Read 3238 times)
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Beel
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2009, 10:00:47 AM »

I'm sorry, but only people like Limbaugh would characterize the New Yorker as "left wing."  The New Yorker makes an ongoing and valiant effort to be rational and clear-sighted.  While they don't always succeed, they do not have a left-wing agenda, but print detailed, thoughtful, insightful articles which cover a broad spectrum of our world, including science and the political realm.  With regard to science, their pieces on the environment have been outstanding. 

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snowcamper
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Let there be light!


« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2009, 10:25:08 AM »

Beel... according to my Wikipedia, Siler City has an elevation of 623 ft and Pittsboro has an elevation of 394 feet.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siler_City,_NC and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsboro,_North_Carolina

According to the IPCC (whose science is in dispute), the sea level could rise by 7 inches by 2100.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_change

7 Inches!

Pittsboro is 2,748 inches above sea level.

Pack your life preservers, because at today's rate of sea level rise, we will have beach front property in 35,000 years.


35,000 years!

We really, really need to spend money today to prepare for such a thing, and the huge number of refugees which will be flooding our fair county over more time than humanity has even existed.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 10:31:13 AM by snowcamper » Logged
Beel
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« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2009, 10:41:08 AM »

I don't think the "refugee" problem is a top-ten issue for Chatham county.  However, your facts are irrelevant, Snowcamper.  Many analyses of sea-level rise suggest that Greenville, NC could be more or less "beachfront".  Considering the number of people who live between Greenville and the coast, that sort of rise might have a significant effect on population density in Chatham County.  As we saw in the flooding during and after Floyd, vast areas of our coastal plain can become unlivable in a shockingly short time.  There is no concern with the ocean flooding Chatham County, but with the general effects of a sea level rise on the coastal plain. 

As to estimates of sea level rise being "in dispute," does than mean anything different from "are just estimates," or "too little is known to make definitive predictions at this time," or even "as with most science, the amount of sea level rise is arguable."  Duh.  Seems like you're cherry-picking the general terrain to argue against what seems to be a fairly generalized educational effort. 

When the next CBC elections come round, perhaps the campaigns will be run on such financial issues as the bus route and this program.  My guess is, more votes will be captured or swayed by the overall perception of the various candidates. 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 10:49:37 AM by Beel » Logged
snowcamper
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Let there be light!


« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2009, 10:52:48 AM »

7 Inches

Greenville's elevation is 56 feet, or 672 inches.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenville,_North_Carolina

But don't let any "irrelevant" facts get in between you and your politics.  After all, you have "many analyses".
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 10:58:43 AM by snowcamper » Logged
WolfpackFan
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« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2009, 11:43:04 AM »

7 Inches

Greenville's elevation is 56 feet, or 672 inches.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenville,_North_Carolina

But don't let any "irrelevant" facts get in between you and your politics.  After all, you have "many analyses".


LOL!  Snowcamper, this made be laugh pretty good this morning.  Thanks.
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More today than yesterday - Mindy
Silk_Hope
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« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2009, 01:12:46 PM »

Poor Beel, he can't win against you Camper.
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Clyde
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2009, 01:35:41 PM »

Poor Beel, he can't win against you Camper.

your quote sums things up pretty neatly... it's all about winning for some folks

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garboon
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2009, 05:03:54 PM »


According to the IPCC (whose science is in dispute), the sea level could rise by 7 inches by 2100.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level_change



Wow I find it ironic to see you quoting the IPCC - guess you believe at least part of the 'questionable science'

The sea level is hardly the major concern if their predictions of climate change are at least partially true.

But we have been here before - the increased CO2 will help our crops and we will all be happy, right?

Only time will tell for sure we still have choices and we will be judged by history.

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snowcamper
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Let there be light!


« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2009, 05:35:51 PM »


Wow I find it ironic to see you quoting the IPCC - guess you believe at least part of the 'questionable science'

The sea level is hardly the major concern if their predictions of climate change are at least partially true.

But we have been here before - the increased CO2 will help our crops and we will all be happy, right?

Only time will tell for sure we still have choices and we will be judged by history.


I quoted the IPCC because I consider them to be extremely exaggerated, and thus would prove my point all the more...but since some people on this board appreciate Authority instead of Logic, the object of my argument being one of those, I thought it would be all the more relevant.

"Only time will tell..." what a fallacious argument!  (see http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#future)  Known as "Argument to the Future", with an implied "Argument by Selective Observation" (see http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#selective), this argument allows you to have your cake and eat it too!

See, I don't deny that at some point in the future, the climate will be warmer, but I also believe that the climate will be cooler... even that we will enter another ice age at some point with the northern half of the US under thousands of feet of ice...

All you really need to know is:
- at times in our past, CO2 levels have been higher than they are today.
- at times in our past, temperatures have been warmer than today.
- we were not the cause of either.
- the "world" is still here, and still vibrantly full of ever-adapting/evolving life.
- This will be true regardless of what we do.
- Humans are no different from any other agent of natural selection, be it volcano, ice age, comets, continental drift, precession, solar activity, disease, drought, invasive species, etc.
- There is nothing to say that any particular climate is "the best", "the most worth preserving", "the ideal", "the way it should be", etc.  Thus trying to preserve a certain climate is pointless, and probably based on some sort of emotional attachment as opposed to logical reasoning.


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garboon
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2009, 07:04:42 PM »

Not so much a fallacious argument since we have no possible way with current technology to predict with any certainty what the climate will be in X years, this makes "only time will tell" a truth and not an argument.

It will certainly be warmer but not necessarily cooler - the idea being that if the earth warms enough it will fail to be corrected by the various climate feedback loops that regulate it and the predictable pattern of cooling and warming wil be broken in unpredictable ways.  Agin - nobody knows this and nobody can predict either way, I present it as a distinct possibility.

All you need to know is that the atmospheric and climatic system of the earth is far to complicated to be predicted by any human on this earth at this point in time - no matter how well you can argue the point.

Do we have a model of runaway warming - certainly, just look to Venus, A planet that is much warmer than it should be given its orbit, rotation and atmosphere.

I agree  with this:
 Humans are no different from any other agent of natural selection, be it volcano, ice age, comets, continental drift, precession, solar activity, disease, drought, invasive species, etc.
With the exception being that volcanoes, etc cannot choose to limit their CO2 while humans can.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 07:10:28 PM by garboon » Logged
chrstnhsbndfthr
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« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2009, 10:08:40 PM »

The bit about global warming on Venus was interesting. How exactly did we cause that?  (As far as I know, there is no life and has never been any life, on Venus. If we were not there, does this not prove the point that we are not the most important influence on global temperature?
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“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.”
— Milton Friedman
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