Chatham Offering Green Rebates

[mamamia]

The bottom line is green construction is more expensive.

In some cases it can be more pricey, but achieving Energy Star certainly doesn't use more expensive materials. It just requires a more thoughtfully built home. Energy Star just means the home is more energy-efficient.
m

[snowcamper]

If they are going to be saving money on energy... then why do we give them a bonus (our tax money) to do so? 

You're taking money from the taxpayers of Chatham and giving it to someone else who, as you admit, will be saving money anyway because of the way they chose to build their homes.

Meanwhile, the poor folks who can't afford the upfront costs to build like that or to renovate have to subsidize the lifestyle of those who can... and there are lots more poor folks in this county than there are going to be "green" homes.

I am being picky... because the CC's are nickel and diming us to death, along with every other level of government.  They are taking money from me and giving it to their special interests in an outright bid to buy votes.  They are not thinking of the "average person" in this county, whom they are supposed to represent, but they are giving our money to the squeaky wheels. 

No, it is not this "one thing"... it is all of them put together.  The $7/taxpayer going to the Human Relations Commission, the $2.50/citizen going to the bus, the Lord-knows-how-much going to the "green builders"....

That all adds up and it has to stop.

[hb727]

If they are going to be saving money on energy... then why do we give them a bonus to do so? 

You're taking money from the taxpayers of Chatham and giving it to someone else who, as you admit, will be saving money anyway because of the way they chose to build their homes.

Meanwhile, the poor folks who can't afford the upfront costs to build like that or to renovate have to subsidize the lifestyle of those who can... and there are lots more poor folks in this county than there are going to be "green" homes.

I am being picky... because the CC's are nickel and diming us to death, along with every other level of government.  They are taking money from me and giving it to their special interests in an outright bid to buy votes.  They are not thinking of the "average person" in this county, whom they are supposed to represent, but they are giving our money to the squeaky wheels. 

No, it is not this "one thing"... it is all of them put together.  The $7/taxpayer going to the Human Relations Commission, the $2.50/citizen going to the bus, the Lord-knows-how-much going to the "green builders"....

That all adds up and it has to stop.

Now Camper, what's a couple of bucks here and there a few hundred times? Besides, you're not being very appreciative. I mean, just look at how much more valuable your home and property is since the last evaluation! Those commissioners have increased your net worth immensely. There is no way that I could have beat that in the stock market and I figure with one more evaluation like the last one, I'll have it made. 

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would be asking in that other thread why people are voting for these incumbents.

[BillyRay]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would be asking in that other thread why people are voting for these incumbents.

Whats even stranger is the party asking the question hasn't even got any candidates of her own.

[hb727]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would be asking in that other thread why people are voting for these incumbents.

Whats even stranger is the party asking the question hasn't even got any candidates of her own.

I'm not too sure about that. I think she might have one.

[WolfpackFan]

This program has more a "look what we are doing to help the world" to it than actually encouraging anyone to go green.  450 dollars is just not that much money when you are building a house.  I only see people that intended to build green anyway collecting this money.

[WolfpackFan]

The bottom line is green construction is more expensive.

In some cases it can be more pricey, but achieving Energy Star certainly doesn't use more expensive materials. It just requires a more thoughtfully built home. Energy Star just means the home is more energy-efficient.
m

How do you make a home more energy efficent without spending anymore money?

[mamamia]

Through installation of things live HVAC, insulation, etc. done in a way that keeps energy efficiency in mind. A little caulk and work done by people who know what they're doing - voila. Tightening up an already built house to Energy Star levels isn't that hard or expensive, either. Most houses aren't built with energy efficiency measures. HVAC systems installed that are unsealed, insulation laid in unsealed attics, no insulation in spots that need it. These are cheap=o fixes.
The other certifications on that list - yes, probably more expensive. But green doesn't have to mean sustainable new fancy this and super fancy expensive product that. It can also mean reused materials or building to a scale that makes sense. And some of those programs give points for people who make smart, inexpensive choices. Not all of them, however.
But I get what you pickers are saying about gov't, and you're right, $450 is a drop-o in the bucket-o.
So pick away. Pick pick pick. Thank goodness for you pickers.

[WolfpackFan]

But you said energy efficency can be increased without spending more money.  Caulk and insulation cost money.  I also doubt you can get upgrade to an Energy Star rating with a little caulk and few pieces of insulation.  As a builder, I am very interested in hearing how I can increase my customer's energy efficency at no additional cost.  You call it picky, I call it economics.

[bluetick67]

The bottom line is green construction is more expensive. Instead of having government subsidies the contractor or buyer should negotiate cheaper prices with the manufacturer of the products, no need for the public to subsidize private construction.

With you on this.  And a step further back - the artificially inflated costs throughout the supply chain which end with a consumer paying higher prices than for "non-green"......leading to government choice of opening the door for these subsidies, while simultaneously creating a barrier of entry for many.

[snowcamper]

Conveniently enough, the American Thinker had an excellent article of "spreading the wealth around" today:  http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/our_national_blind_spot.html

Decades ago, the oldest free-market think tank, The Foundation for Economic Education, Inc., published Lewis Love's short parable, "A King of Long Ago." In the story, an artisan, a mason, and a lame beggar petition their king for aid. The artisan can't attract enough customers to meet his sales goals, the mason isn't getting hired very often, and the beggar isn't receiving sufficient alms.

They implore the king to correct this unsatisfactory state of affairs. The king commands that each petitioner be given a sword. He then authorizes the three to "go forth in the land and compel those who will not voluntarily deal with them to obey their command."

"No! No!" the three men demur. "We are men of honor and could not set upon our fellow man to compel him to our will. This we cannot do. It is you, O King, who must use the power."

"You ask me to do that which you would not do because of honor?" questioned the king. "I, too, am an honorable man, and that which is dishonorable for you will never be less dishonorable for your king."

...

What causes otherwise-honest people to condone the political plunder and redistribution of personal property? Immorality? That's too harsh for my taste. I prefer to say that there is a blind spot in their thinking.

Maybe what we're dealing with is mob psychology. Perhaps it's rationalization. "It's for a worthy cause," we tell ourselves, oblivious to the fact that the Eighth Commandment doesn't say "Thou shalt not steal ... except by majority vote or unless it's for the poor." 

There is a moral issue involved here... not just me "being picky".  This green house credit is one symptom of a much deeper disease. 

Stripped of grandiose pretenses and specious idealism, contemporary political life has descended into a constant, contentious squabble to see who gets what at the expense of whom.

Theft by a mob, by majority vote, or by county commissioner fiat is theft none-the-less.  We all will have to pay more in taxes to make up  the lost revenue because of this "credit"... and sooner, rather than later, we'll hear how hard up the government is and how property taxes must creep up.

Unfortunately, mamamia and folks like her will then buy the line "but we need the money for the children, for the schools, to keep us safe and they will be intellectually incapable of drawing the line between this credit and the deficit in the county budget.

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

Great post, Snowcamper!

[SBB]

Are you also against the green energy rebates that Progress Energy gives for making energy efficient changes to your home or the Energy conservation discount you can get on your electric bill if you have an energy efficient home?

[snowcamper]

Good question SBB.  It depends on whether Progress is being coerced into given them by the government or not.

If they are making the business decision that this is a good thing for them to do, then by all means, great!

But somehow I find it difficult to believe that they willingly encourage people to use less of their own product.  That smells of governmental intervention at the highest levels.  Especially when they'll pay people to do so.

So this is probably just another bureaucratic redistribution scheme, where the majority of folks pay "just a little more" to benefit those who have the right friends and who toe a philosophical line.  Kind of like giving rebates to everyone who attended a Baptist Church this morning, or those who wear red on Thursdays.  It is coercion.

If Progress was able to do business of its own free will, they probably would encourage energy consumption... be pushing heated tile floors & toilet seats, lots of outdoor lighting, heated driveways... lord knows.  But they would also be trying to produce as much electricity at the lowest cost they could, thereby spreading their capital costs over higher volumes, even if it is at lower costs.

Most successful businesses in the real world do this.

[Concern]

When you can find monies to fund 800K$ green roofs at CCC, nonprofits, artists and the other hair brained line items in the budget, BUT fail to give raises to county employee's in critical protection and support areas, there are serious problems with the county commissioner board.

It is time for CHANGE (familiar word) I hope! I'm really don't care for either political party, so how about an independent to balance the board of CC?

There should be enough disgruntled from all party's to get at least one or maybe 2 seats on the board.  You will never see district CC on the ballot as long as the DEM's are in the majority.

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