Can Chatham County Afford a 40 million Dollar High School at Present

[WanderingWizard]

Also keep in mind that Woods Charter accepts children from anywhere. The number of people vying for spaces are not all from Chatham County.

Allison Springer
Woods Parent

[WolfpackFan]

As the parent of a child that did not get into Woods again this year, I think they should go ahead and start on a new wing.

[Muddylaces]

As the parent of a child that did not get into Woods again this year, I think they should go ahead and start on a new wing.

my kid missed K too by a dozen spots

[RandysRight]

Roger Gerber who is running for the NC Senate gave a excellent speech last night at the Chatham GOP monthly meeting of the benefits of Charter schools.  The Quality, cost effectiveness and many other great points on this issue.  GERBER FOR NC SENATE District 18 Lee, Chatham and NW Durham.

[Silk_Hope]

Since Northwood has been renovated and CCHS and JM are under capacity a new high school is not a priority.

[munn5]

Does anyone know how much it costs to build Woods?

The land was donated by Briar Chapel. The cost of site work, construction of the building, and furniture/equipment was about $7.5M. Additional equipment (scoreboard and bleachers, for example) were donated or paid for with donations to the foundation, and are not included in that cost.

[WolfpackFan]

Does anyone know how much it costs to build Woods?

The land was donated by Briar Chapel. The cost of site work, construction of the building, and furniture/equipment was about $7.5M. Additional equipment (scoreboard and bleachers, for example) were donated or paid for with donations to the foundation, and are not included in that cost.

Mia, how do the two school compare sizewise, costwise, etc?  I know it may not be a straight apple to apple comparison, but do you feel the 40 million dollar pricetag is a "good price" for what we get?

[hulahoop]

Northwood was renovated, but a significant amount of classroom space was no added.  I don't think we need a new high school, right now, but Northwood can't have Pods and Mobiles as a permanent solution, either.

By the by, opening a new school isn't just a waste of money if the growth has stopped, it can actually be detrimental.  Imagine Northwood and the new high school, both at 400-500 and with maybe half the AP classes and electives northwood is able to offer now.

[Muddylaces]

Does anyone know how much it costs to build Woods?

The land was donated by Briar Chapel. The cost of site work, construction of the building, and furniture/equipment was about $7.5M. Additional equipment (scoreboard and bleachers, for example) were donated or paid for with donations to the foundation, and are not included in that cost.

thank you.   So if we were going to build a school and pay for everything let's double the woods cost.  $15m.   I just save the county $27m.   I'll take my 1% cut of the savings.

[djkelly]

The two schools are different, Woods is K-12 and the new county school would be a high school so that probably has some effect.

According to their website Woods has 485 students.  I don't know their  situation for expansion.

The proposed high school would be buildt for 800 students with a core that could handle 1200 allowing future expansion.  The county already owns the land, so that isn't included in the cost.

[Gene Galin]

The two schools are different, Woods is K-12 and the new county school would be a high school so that probably has some effect.

According to their website Woods has 485 students.  I don't know their  situation for expansion.

The proposed high school would be buildt for 800 students with a core that could handle 1200 allowing future expansion.  The county already owns the land, so that isn't included in the cost.

Woods has about 502 students. No current plans for expansion. Woods is still adjusting to the increase in the student population due to the move from the Cole Park Plaza location to the new building at Andrews Store Road.

[munn5]

Compared to Woods, a K-12 school of 500, a high school for 800 students (with core facilities to handle 1200) has a larger gym, a larger cafeteria, a separate auditorium, more science labs, some vocational classrooms, many more regular classrooms, a library, more restrooms, a much bigger parking lot, and many more outdoor fields. I couldn't find the exact size, but the site for the new HS is in the range of 40 acres vs 18 for Woods. So, you can't compare the two. Also, the state does not allow district schools the same flexibility in hiring contractors, which I believe drives up the cost. That is one of the ways charters are given flexibility in return for increased accountability.

Here is a link to the schematic design for the new high school http://ds1.chatham.k12.nc.us/construction.nsf/construction%20services?OpenFrameset

Hulahoop has an important point - you don't want to end up with Northwood and the new hs being significantly under capacity, because that would affect the ability for each to have a broad range of programs such as AP classes. Sally Kost mentioned that if there was capacity at the high schools and a need for lower level classes, then maybe there could be creative solutions. (She mentioned putting a couple of elementary grades in a wing of the high schools, but I think moving 8th grade up, and moving 5th grades to the middle schools for a couple of years would be a more workable, creative, solution.)

I do think that the board, the administration, and the commissioners are thinking of the high school in the budget as a placeholder - we probably will need to be building SOME school in 2013-2015. If it's not a high school, it may be an elementary school, which would be cheaper. Or, come this time next year, if the economy is still slow and there hasn't been an uptick in building, they could move it back another year.

One advantage of building during lean times is you get lower bids because the builders are hungry. The commissioners trimmed a good bit of cost out of the judicial building, and I expect there may be some that can be trimmed from the high school. For example, there were supposed to be terrazo (poured in place) floors, but there is someone in Chatham County who makes tiles that can be installed with the same look (invisible seams) and close to the same durability, for lower cost, so that will be used in the judicial building instead.

[Muddylaces]

...Also, the state does not allow district schools the same flexibility in hiring contractors...

But isn't this the whole problem?

[munn5]

...Also, the state does not allow district schools the same flexibility in hiring contractors...

But isn't this the whole problem?

In return for more flexibility, charters have greater accountability. The state board recently decided that charters will be closed if they both don't make expected growth and don't have 60% proficiency in 2 of 3 years. Charters could be closed as soon as 2012. Looking at the past 3 years, if this policy had been in effect, 6 charters would be closed. That's 6.2% of the total number of charter schools. This policy ONLY applies to charters. If you applied the same standard to district schools over the past 3 years, 155 schools, or 6.5% of district schools would be closed. Over the past 13 years that charters have been open in NC, 44 schools have closed or had their charters revoked.

Also, charter schools do not receive any capital funds from the state or from local cities and counties. So, it makes sense that the state can't tell the charters how to spend capital funds they have raised or saved.

[BuzzKill]

Northwood was renovated, but a significant amount of classroom space was no added.  I don't think we need a new high school, right now, but Northwood can't have Pods and Mobiles as a permanent solution, either.

By the by, opening a new school isn't just a waste of money if the growth has stopped, it can actually be detrimental.  Imagine Northwood and the new high school, both at 400-500 and with maybe half the AP classes and electives northwood is able to offer now.

I would think this would be a good thing.........seems like it would reduce class size within the classroom not necessarily eliminate the classroom.  More one on one with students.

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