Laptops in high schools, and digital devices for all grades

[munn5]

News 14 Carolina story on the first year of the 1:1 laptop initiative in the high schools
http://triangle.news14.com/content/top_stories/626529/chatham-schools--laptop-program-finishes-1st-year?ap=1&MP4
Parents of high school students, teachers, and students - what was your experience with the laptop program this year?

At the board meeting Monday night, the board and Mr. Logan will discuss "A Vision for a Total Digital Learning Environment for Chatham County Schools". The PowerPoint included in the link below will be shared with the County Commissioners at the commissioners meeting tomorrow morning (June 7). The goal is "placing a digital device in the hands of every Chatham County student by 2012". I have concerns about making a significant, long-term financial commitment over the next 2 school years, when there is uncertainty in the state budget for next year and an almost certain significant shortfall (Mr. Logan has said $3M) for the following year due to the end of federal stimulus funds. This concern is raised in the presentation: "Finding new funding for this solution in a recession" (slide 17) I also question the wisdom and necessity of giving primary students (K-3) digital devices (the proposal suggests iPads - see slide 13). The companies I've worked for never wanted to be on the bleeding edge of technology, because support and training costs are so high. If we go this direction, we will be on the bleeding edge. There are a few schools that are completely technology based (like the School of the Future in Philadelphia), but I know of no school districts that are moving to an all-digital district. We already have a much higher computer to student ratio than most of the schools in the state (1.67 for CCS, vs. 2.72 for the state). We will need to fund not only the cost of the devices and refreshing them every 3-4 years, but also significant training for teaching, ongoing technical support, and vastly increased bandwidth. I also have concerns about relying too heavily on technology, with "selective abandonment of traditional teaching methods" (slide 16) in a county where many students do not have access to the internet at home.
http://www.chatham.k12.nc.us/board/meetings/2009-2010/06_07_10_boemtg/Agenda%20Item-Vision%20for%20Total%20Digital%20Learning.pdf

[baileysdad]

I just saw a piece on WRAL about Culbreth Middle in Chapel Hill issuing iPod Touches to every child there.  It sounded like the students pick them up in the morning and return them at the end of the day.  The devices do not go home with the child.  It's and interesting concept, and the teachers they interviewed were enthusastic, though I suspect there was a bit of "selection bias" in the choice of interviewees . . .

[munn5]

Here is the summary of this topic at tonight's board meeting (provided by the district).

The Board discussed a vision for a total digital learning environment in the district.  Three options were discussed for the next phase of the district’s instructional technology program:  1) Replace student laptop computers at Chatham Central, Northwood and SAGE which are several years old.  (Jordan-Matthews received new laptops this school year thanks to a Golden LEAF Foundation grant.)  2) Replace the laptops at the high schools in option 1 and issue an iPad to students in grades 6-8.  (Margaret B. Pollard Middle School will open with extensive technology resources.)  3) Place a digital device in the hands of every student in the district, likely laptops for high school students and iPads in kindergarten-eighth grade.  (Jordan-Matthews would not receive new laptops in option 3 because theirs were new in 2009.)   NOTES:  These options also include some other aspects such as staff development, replacement of some staff computers, and infrastructure.   The district would need to redirect some of its existing resources, utilize community support and resources as well as multiple funding streams.  The financial commitment would start in the 2011-2012 budget cycle.  The Board decided it will propose option 3 to the Chatham County Board of Commissioners.  This option would place a digital device in the hands of all students in the district. 

[munn5]

Mr. Logan really wants Chatham to move to a "total digital learning environment" over the next 2 years. This would involve 3 parts:
1. Refreshing the laptops at Chatham Central, Northwood, and SAGE (a "must-do" since many are 5 years old) with leased macbooks. Apple would give us a 4 year lease to own for 1,561 laptops for 3 payments of $591,000, with the first payment due in the 2011-12 school year. They say this is a 5% discount with no interest on the first year, and also includes some teacher training.

2. Providing iPads to all 6-8 students. (I asked the Apple reps as they were leaving if the students would take these home or keep them at school, and they did not know what was planned.) Mr. Logan originally suggested piloting this at Chatham Middle, Horton, and Pollard, for 3 payments of ~$200,000 (same terms - 4 year lease to own, first payment due 2nd year). Mr. Leonard expressed concern about doing a pilot, that it wouldn't be fair to the other middle school students, so the board went with all schools at one time. Mr. Logan will have to get the cost for all middle schools.

3. Providing iPads to all K-5 students (same terms).

Doing all 3 parts would cost $1.9 million per year for three years (starting the 2nd year of the 4 year lease to own). At the end of the 4 years, it would be time to refresh again, so this would basically be a cost every year. (Actually, after the first cycle it would be more, since we would also need to replace the 800 laptops at Jordan-Matthews).

Mr. Logan made a presentation to the county commissioners this morning and he said they were in "total support".

Mr. Logan acknowledged that we are in tight economic times, and that we are facing the loss of $3+ million in federal stimulus funding in 2011-12, but he wanted to go ahead now. He said they could redirect some current funding, use textbook funds, ask the PTAs to pay some of the costs (since they already buy technology for schools), and apply for grants to get the funds. Ms. Russell pointed out that it would help in recruiting good teachers and aid in economic development. It would also help Chatham get county-wide internet (funded through grants). Ms. Russell also said the price was a good deal, so we should jump on it.

Mr. Logan said the district would move away from traditional textbooks. Someone (Ms. McManus?) asked about costs for ebooks (instead of hard copy textbooks). Ms. Russell asserted that they would be less, though neither Mr. Logan nor the Apple reps knew how etextbooks are priced. (Note, there are no funds for textbooks in the state budget for next year. Typically, we get about $800,000 for textbooks each year.) Mr. Stensland said one Biology class is at Chatham Central is all done with wikis (no textbook) and had good test results. Mr. O'brien suggested that teachers could use open source content, and it would just be a matter of someone finding what is available. (I've looked online - there is a massive amount of material, but most not in readily usable format for an entire course.)

Mr. Logan said there was already a plan for training all the teachers, developed with the Friday Center, and it was "just a matter of scheduling". (Note, in the state budget there are no funds for professional development, all local funds for professional development next year are cut, and the district budget cuts 11 months of employment for Instructional Facilitators and 9 months of employment for curriculum coaches, the two types of positions that teach professional development to teachers.) Some training would also be provided by Apple.

Mr. O'brien expressed his concern. He said "I'd rather have a smart teacher than a smart board", pointing out that technology is less important that good teachers. He also said that the cost of technology always goes down in future years, so the deal is not that great.

The board told Mr. Logan to ask the commissioners to find this funding.

[hulahoop]

I'm glad to see them leaning in this direction, and to see comments like "smart boards don't replace smart teachers," but I wish they woudl wait for the rest of the world to catch up with them, a little.  Right now the "open source" resources available for free do not replace text books.  The kinds of resources available along the lines of a mathematical investigation in a text book are NOT available for free on the web.  they MAY be available at reduced cost for web only, nor hard copies, but I HOPE they look into this before making decisions!!

I LOVE the thought process here, but I worry they're rushing into decision, AGAIN!

[munn5]

I do not think it is a good idea to move on providing iPads to all middle school or elementary school students at this time, for the following reasons.

1. We do not have a secure (or even potential) revenue stream to pay for $1.9 million in technology hardware every year starting 2011-12 (and increasing a couple years after that to cover replacing the additional 800 laptops at Jordan-Mathews). It is irresponsible to commit that much in future funding without knowing where the funds will come from.

2. Unless you are a high tech company, you never want to be on the cutting edge. Your hardware costs are higher because hardware is less expensive in future years. Your support costs are higher because there may be bugs and because you don't have opportunity to learn from others' experience with the technology. There is less content (software, etextbooks, coherent curriculum) available for early adopters of hardware.

3. There is no staff development funding available for next school year, and a decreased number of in-house personnel available to provide training. School starts in 11 weeks - that's not much time to get the iPads, train teachers, and have teachers develop lessons that use the iPads.

4. The district has no idea what etextbooks cost. If we get iPads for the 2010-11 school year, there is no textbook funding at all, so we will have the hardware without the software to make them usable to the classes. There is free content available, but 11 weeks is not enough time for teachers to find the content that matches the NC standard course of study and figure out how to use the content with the hardware so that the students actually learn.

5. There was no discussion at all about the other costs. If we get about 2200 more computers (my estimate), we will need 4.5 additional Technology technicians. The 13 current technology technicians are paid an average of $45,259 per year, plus benefits. (That would be over $200,000 plus benefits for new technicians.)

6. There was no discussion about other costs - expanded bandwidth, needed wiring/routers/hubs, etc.

7. I'm not even going to go in to the issues of giving primary students iPads - not only a high risk of breakage/loss, but also a lot of down time if there are technical glitches and one more layer of complexity for students while they are trying to learn to read and write.

So, the proposal would commit $1.9 million a year in capital funds (increasing by ~$300,000 a year when the J-M laptops are replaced), plus well over $200,000 in personnel costs a year, plus an unknown amount for other hardware, and unknown amount for software/etextbooks, with no funding stream identified. We would get iPads to middle school students next school year, with little time for the teachers to be trained on no funding to pay for training, no time for teachers to find and develop curriculum using the technology, and no money to buy etextbooks. Mr. Logan said we would have more technology than any other district in the state, which means we would have no one to turn to for advice or help in solving problems.

Call the county commissioners. Write them. Email them. Right now, before June 21 when they vote on the county budget. Tell them this is moving too fast. Tell them you want the school district to take a year to find the answers to the unanswered cost questions, and to develop the technology-based curriculum, before we lease the iPads. Tell them you don't want them to commit millions in dollars of funding each year, when we don't have those funds available. Tell them you don't want us to be the pioneers in technology because it will cost much more money and our children's education will suffer during the period of confusion.

[dmccarty]

Apple would give us a 4 year lease to own for 1,561 laptops for 3 payments of $591,000, with the first payment due in the 2011-12 school year. They say this is a 5% discount with no interest on the first year, and also includes some teacher training.


There is much that is disturbing in what is being discussed.  So I will just start with the above information:

• Each laptop costs $1,135.
  The laptops are leased.
  5% discount for 1,561 systems.
  Single source for the hardware.

$1,135 for a laptop is very expensive.  Why is the county looking at such expensive hardware?  A 5% discount for a large purchase like this is insulting.  Since the model number of the systems are not mentioned we cannot compare the hardware but I don't see why the schools need such expensive hardware.  A quick check of laptops at http://www.newegg.com/ shows there are 138 laptops at or under $1,000 with a majority of the systems being priced in the $500-$1,000 range.  34 systems are over $1,000.  The laptops over $1,000 are at least as good if not better than what I use for my job as a software engineer. 

Why does the county need to buy systems this expensive?

Since the hardware is Apple the county is paying a premium for the hardware.  This is simply a waste of money.  As much as I dislike Microsoft products, they have the market share and Windows runs the most applications.  Apple is a product for which you pay a premium.  Since it appears that what the county is trying to do is teach using these systems any laptop that has decent performance will work.  The county could use a Linux based solution and save even more money.   To pay a premium and receive a piddly 5% discount on the systems is disturbing.

And the systems are leased for 4 years.  At the end of four years the systems are returned to Apple.  So the taxpayers pay a premium to use these system and then Apple gets them back?  Is the high cost of the laptop due to a service agreement?  If there is no service agreement it is asinine to pay this amount of money for the systems and then return them to Apple.  If the county OWNED the systems they would have the option of still using these systems.  I have systems that are well over 5 years old and work just fine for surfing the net.  And running most applications. 

The county should be getting better prices on the hardware and they should OWN the systems.  Not lease them.

Course this all begs the question of HOW these systems will be used?  How will these tools be integrated into the classroom?  What course work is going to be taught?  HOW will it be taught?  Has the course work been designed?  Do the teachers agree to the content? 

eBooks do not mean vast savings of money or much savings at all.  The eBooks I have looked to buy were as much or close to the price of the physical book.  eBook Text books I just looked at on Amazon had a saving of 10%-30%.  30% was for hardback books.  If the books can be used for years then there could be savings.  Of course if the laptop does not work then the kid can't just open a book.  eBooks are also LEASED.  They are not owned.

Later,
Dan

[mamamia]

3. There is no staff development funding available for next school year, and a decreased number of in-house personnel available to provide training. School starts in 11 weeks - that's not much time to get the iPads, train teachers, and have teachers develop lessons that use the iPads.

This is CRUCIAL.
Beyond crucial.
If the county does not invest big money training teachers HOW and WHY to use these devices it is completely wasted money.
I do not understand the rush. Make this a priority for next year and spend this year planning out training, training the trainers, etc.
With the exception of the high schools, there are no instructional technology people in the schools. The middle and elem. schools have teachers who are designated "lead tech teacher" and they get a small stipend in exchange for being the point person at their school ( giving occasional training sessions, maybe doing the web site, etc), but in the majority of schools this is the only person who is training staff on technology.
There is no one in the curriculum dept. who does this, either. And there's no money to hire anyone and no time for training. Obviously the curriculum coaches and the central office curriculum people, as well as many teachers, know how to use technology effectively, but so many still don't know how and why to use it. Why not take a little time to really do it right instead of spending so much money on technology.
I really don't get it.
m

[munn5]

And the systems are leased for 4 years.  At the end of four years the systems are returned to Apple.  So the taxpayers pay a premium to use these system and then Apple gets them back?  Is the high cost of the laptop due to a service agreement?  If there is no service agreement it is asinine to pay this amount of money for the systems and then return them to Apple.  If the county OWNED the systems they would have the option of still using these systems.  I have systems that are well over 5 years old and work just fine for surfing the net.  And running most applications. 

Dan,
Thanks for your comments. Mr. Logan described it as a 3 yr lease to own - we have the computers year 1, pay years 2-4, and then we keep them. So, potentially, we could keep them for another year, and have paid 3 years for 5 years' use. The wear and tear on a student laptop is much greater than any I've ever had at work (even with travel). The current laptops at Northwood and Chatham Central are 4-5 years old, and some of them (though probably not all) do need to be replaced.

[stephanie]

I work at UNC Student Stores, which supplies both textbooks and computers to the thousands of unc students. First let me note that it is REQUIRED that all students have an approved laptop (or desktop) starting their freshman year.  These students are completely technologically savvy.  they cart their laptops around campus, they all have ipods and fancy phones, there is high-speed internet in all the dorms and free wi-fi throughout campus.  But do they buy e-books?  NO.

e-books simply are not the preferred media for course materials.  yes, the students access a lot of course info online, via electronic syllabus or blackboard, but electronic textbooks just aren't catching on.  the store offers both books and ebooks for many courses, but typically doesn't sell very many ebooks.  when you buy an ebook, the price usually is not much cheaper than the actual book.  many ebooks expire after the semester ends or when a new edition comes out.  you can't sell back an ebook to the store or to your friends.  and if your computer crashes or you get a new one, many companies will not allow you to re-install your ebook on a different machine.  i'm not sure how the schools would reuse these books over and over again, like they do with the paper books.

beyond that, students don't seem to like the experience of reading entire books on a computer.  several years ago, the unc dental school decided to ditch paper books completely.  all students purchased a laptop and had to pay for electronic versions of their books.  the students HATED it.  they didn't like ALWAYS having to carry their laptops with them, whether it be to class or just to go study.  they found it hard to read on the screens, especially detailed pictures.  they didn't like the electronic "highlighting" and not being able to easily flip pages back and forth.  add these complaints to the pricing issues i've touched on above and you have unhappy students.  the school dropped the program after a few years.

while i am totally for students having access to technology, which i think we have already achieved with the high school students, i just don't see spending the money on electronic textbooks.  they are too expensive, and when given the choice, students choose paper books.  and i CERTAINLY don't think we should ask our teachers to have to create their own course content.  i can't imagine having to patch together a semester or years worth of course material that would actually flow together, was from a free and reliable source, and met the state's curriculum requirements.  and what about quizzes and test banks?  and ultimately, you can't rely on a website to still be there the next time you need it. 

and as far as the technology really being tied into classroom time, i just don't see that happening.  we all thought that would happen at unc when they implemented the computer requirement, but it didn't.  instructors continue to lecture, and may even display online content via a projector, but the students themselves rarely ever have to have their own computer with them.  in fact, most instructors would prefer they didn't bring their laptops.  the amount of time spent on email, facebook, or game playing during classtime is amazing.

[SBB]

The Apple products are proprietary and therefore pricey.  The schools could get computers a lot cheaper from anyone else.  The iPad would be the bleeding edge rather than the leading edge.  The schools cannot not afford this. The iPad isn't even multitasking and won't support Flash.  Any netbook would be more useful and you would actually get a keyboard with it.  This is a mistake.  I am all for technology in the schools (couldn't live without it myself), but this is not the most cost effective way to do this.

[munn5]

SBB, Stephanie, mamamia, dmcarty, and all the rest of you reading this - reading and posting comments on the BBS is not enough. This proposal will commit the county to $2 Million a year indefinitely, with no funding source in site. You all have good reasons for us to NOT go forward at this time.

You have to contact the school board AND the county commissioners to let them know you don't want this now. (Contact info from the school and county websites.) They think this is a good idea, and if you don't act, it will be too late.

Deb McManus (school board chair)
uncdeb@earthlink.net

Kathy Russell (vice chair)
krussell@chatham.k12.nc.us

David Hamm
dhamm@chatham.k12.nc.us

Flint O'Brien
flint@flintobrien.com

Gary Leonard
gleonard@chatham.k12.nc.us

Sally Kost (county commissioners chair)
Phone:   (919) 367-0727 (home), (919) 696-7840 (cell)
Email: sally.kost@chathamnc.org

George Lucier (vice chair)
Phone:  919-542-4629
Email:  george.lucier@chathamnc.org

Mike Cross
Phone:   (919) 774-3309
Email:  mike.cross@chathamnc.org

Carl Thompson
Phone:  (919) 837-2407
Email: carl.thompson@chathamnc.org

Tom Vanderveck
Phone:  919-545-2160
Email:  tom.vanderbeck@chathamnc.org 

[GoneFishin]

Whatever happened to a piece of paper and a pencil.?

[whatsup]

"Last time there was this much excitement about a tablet, it had some commandments on it" - The Wall Street Journal

Remember the first iPhone when it came out?

$400

Remember the first iPhone after the 2nd Generation version came out the next year?

$200

Makes the 5% discount that Apple is offering our school system seem pretty pathetic.

Where are the fiscal watchdogs among our elected officials?

[munn5]

Fast Company magazine has said “First-generation Apple products are for suckers. Only lemmings with no self-control and excessive disposable income buy first generation Apple products, especially in a new gadget category. When they do, they pay double the price for immature hardware and software.”

Individuals have the right to be suckers with their own money - I have a lot of friends who are Apple fans and early adopters. But public officials need to be prudent in spending public money, and having a public body be an early adopter is foolish.

I've emailed all the county commissioners and school board members - how about you?

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