Do you support the POTUS siding with building the Mosque at the 9-11 site.

[belle]

last things first.

"The LPC is in an awkward position, as the designation proposal for the five-story Italianate building has sat in its files for over 20 years with no action. The Landmarks Committee at Community Board 1 hasn't made things any clearer: Last week they voted against awarding landmark status, but included in their resolution a statement saying that, while 45 Park Place wasn't distinguished enough for individual protection, the facade should be dismantled, stored and later used on the new building at the location."

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/07/14/small_crowd_big_anger_at_landmarks_commissions_mosque_hearing.php

as for the rest, I have no idea what the question is. except there is to be a women's center in the final plans.

"Even though the 15-story center will house a prayer space for Muslims, the developer has downplayed its ties to any one religion, explaining its interfaith programming would be modeled after the popular 92nd Street Y on the Upper East Side and the sprawling Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side."

http://www.canada.com/news/Ground+Zero+Islamic+center+project+clears+major+obstacle/3354439/story.html

[John Florida]

last things first.

"The LPC is in an awkward position, as the designation proposal for the five-story Italianate building has sat in its files for over 20 years with no action. The Landmarks Committee at Community Board 1 hasn't made things any clearer: Last week they voted against awarding landmark status, but included in their resolution a statement saying that, while 45 Park Place wasn't distinguished enough for individual protection, the facade should be dismantled, stored and later used on the new building at the location."

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/07/14/small_crowd_big_anger_at_landmarks_commissions_mosque_hearing.php

as for the rest, I have no idea what the question is. except there is to be a women's center in the final plans.

"Even though the 15-story center will house a prayer space for Muslims, the developer has downplayed its ties to any one religion, explaining its interfaith programming would be modeled after the popular 92nd Street Y on the Upper East Side and the sprawling Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side."

http://www.canada.com/news/Ground+Zero+Islamic+center+project+clears+major+obstacle/3354439/story.html

 Belle you said they had plans for 30 years that didn't answer the question. You didn't answere my question about Gays and Jews being welcome. And you didn't answere my question about women being treated as equals.

 While were at it if gay marriage becomes the law of the land will they perform them in their brand new building?

[belle]

ah. well, a question I can answer, at last.

no house of worship has to perform a wedding, on demand, even for its own members.

as for the rest, I did answer.

"Even though the 15-story center will house a prayer space for Muslims, the developer has downplayed its ties to any one religion, explaining its interfaith programming would be modeled after the popular 92nd Street Y on the Upper East Side and the sprawling Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side."

http://www.canada.com/news/Ground+Zero+Islamic+center+project+clears+major+obstacle/3354439/story.html

as for the women, ask a muslim woman. most of the ones I know feel pretty equal.

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

http://www.politico.com/politico44/index.html?refresh=1


<

ABOUT LAST NIGHT – With criticism mounting of his support for the construction of an Islamic center two blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan, President Obama on Saturday defended his decision to wade into the controversy the night before, but backed off from his previous stance. >

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

BTW, Politico has a decidedly left-wing bent, and they see this as the President backing off of his previous position of advocating for the site.

[belle]

BTW, Politico has a decidedly left-wing bent, and they see this as the President backing off of his previous position of advocating for the site.

as I understood it, he was advocating for property rights, as in, Property Rights.

rights (Rights) are not to be denied on the basis of race, religion, or physical deformity.

so what is the problem here?

"Rights are legal, social, or ethical principles of freedom or entitlement — i.e. rights are normative rules about what is allowed of people or owed to people, according to some legal system, social convention, or ethical theory. The concept of rights is often fundamental to civilized societies, and it is of vital importance in such disciplines as law and ethics, especially theories of justice and deontology."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights

But let me be clear: as a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country, and will not be treated differently by their government, is essential to who we are. The writ of our Founders must endure.

 
then, he said:

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,” Obama continued. “I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about. And I think it's very important as difficult as some of these issues are that we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about."

from the politico, above.

http://www.politico.com/politico44/index.html?refresh=1

[John Florida]

ah. well, a question I can answer, at last.

no house of worship has to perform a wedding, on demand, even for its own members.

as for the rest, I did answer.

"Even though the 15-story center will house a prayer space for Muslims, the developer has downplayed its ties to any one religion, explaining its interfaith programming would be modeled after the popular 92nd Street Y on the Upper East Side and the sprawling Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side."

http://www.canada.com/news/Ground+Zero+Islamic+center+project+clears+major+obstacle/3354439/story.html

as for the women, ask a muslim woman. most of the ones I know feel pretty equal.

  How do gays get married if no church will marry them. It would be a civil service and that's not what they want. We'll ask the next one to be stoned how equal she feels.

[belle]

well, I was married in a civil service, on the rocks, on the westernmost point of Jamaica. there was a Justice of the Peace involved, and a license I got in Kingston. the US Government had no problem recognizing it, and issued me a new passport.

the only religion involved was some music by a few local Rastas.

so who is "they?" the "others"?

and, do you actually know any muslim women?

[belle]

“I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,” Obama continued. “I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about. And I think it's very important as difficult as some of these issues are that we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about."

[Silk_Hope]

Interesting article http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41069.html

[Innocent Bystander]

BTW, whoever crafted that poll obviously belongs to the "When did you stop beating your wife?" school of phraseolgy. As stated:

Question:    Was it right for Obama to advocate for placing what is viewed by some as a monument to terrorism at the site of 9-11?

 This is about freedom of religion and the Ramadan dinner was the perfect time for him to announce his support for this.
 No, this will be viewed by terrorists around the world as a monument to their success and our status as a paper tiger.

traps the reader into a response that could be wildly off his or her real, and far more nuanced, opinion. The question itself is a trap. Obama has never advocated placing a mosque at Ground Zero. That's a complete fabrication. The answer selections clearly indicate the poller's bias.

[Beckysews]

  What do you think the odds of a gay man walking in there are? Do you think they will be welcoming any Jews to the grand opening? Will women be treated as equals there??
 

My former father-in-law is a Southern Baptist preacher who advocates "Christian love" all while denouncing gays, women and anyone who is not SOUTHERN BAPTIST from the pulpit.  That is his privilege as a citizen of the USA.  I believe he is dead wrong and will find out on his judgement day.

I just can not see how any one who believes in freedom and property rights would seek to deny folks who have owned a property and bought said property for their religious and community outreach purposes several years ago (nearly 30 I believe,) the right to build whatever they want within the local building code perimeters.  If they want to build an amusement park or a City Tap like place and it's with in the building permit code for their property - let 'em!

[NC YIPPIE]

How is it not neutral to say that everyone has the same rights? Why did you feel the need to slant the answers to your poll instead of insisting on the neutrality you expect from others? Does that show a weakness in your position on this?

It's private property. I don't support it. Oh well.

[John Florida]

well, I was married in a civil service, on the rocks, on the westernmost point of Jamaica. there was a Justice of the Peace involved, and a license I got in Kingston. the US Government had no problem recognizing it, and issued me a new passport.

the only religion involved was some music by a few local Rastas.

so who is "they?" the "others"?

and, do you actually know any muslim women?

 I haven't lived in a bubble all my life. Of course I know Muslims but not the old school types that their grand parent were. These people are not religious fanatics and tell stories of the the old days and why they  didn't repeat them.

[John Florida]

  What do you think the odds of a gay man walking in there are? Do you think they will be welcoming any Jews to the grand opening? Will women be treated as equals there??
 

My former father-in-law is a Southern Baptist preacher who advocates "Christian love" all while denouncing gays, women and anyone who is not SOUTHERN BAPTIST from the pulpit.  That is his privilege as a citizen of the USA.  I believe he is dead wrong and will find out on his judgement day.

I just can not see how any one who believes in freedom and property rights would seek to deny folks who have owned a property and bought said property for their religious and community outreach purposes several years ago (nearly 30 I believe,) the right to build whatever they want within the local building code perimeters.  If they want to build an amusement park or a City Tap like place and it's with in the building permit code for their property - let 'em!

 Where did you get this 30 year number I can't find anything on it. As for building it lets be clear the have a legal right to build there is no argument there. But I also see it as a bad taste thing with the families of the victims.

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