Do you support the POTUS siding with building the Mosque at the 9-11 site.

[zorro]

CNN Falsifies History of Muslim Domination of Spain, Shills for Islam
Posted by Andrew G. Bostom Aug 23rd 2010 at 12:17 pm

http://bigjournalism.com/abostom/2010/08/23/cnn-deliberates-falsifies-history-of-muslim-domination-of-spain-shills-for-islam/

Thursday during the 1 p.m. hour, CNN’s “Newsroom,” this exchange took place between CNN reporter Ali Velshi andTime Magazine’s deputy international editor Bobby Ghosh:

VELSHI: The name Cordoba- some people are associating it with Muslim rule and bloody battles, when, in fact, Cordoba was one of the finest times in relations between the major religions.

GHOSH: Exactly right- in interfaith discourse-

VELSHI: Yeah-

GHOSH: And the great mosque of Cordoba that people are talking about and that Newt Gingrich was talking about- the man who built it, the Muslim prince who built it, bought it from a Christian group- paid money for it and bought it from a Christian group. And there was not a lot of alarm and anger raised then.




These statements are journalistic malpractice—ahistorical, whitewashed drivel—compounded by Ghosh’s ad hominem attack on Newt Gingrich.


Reinhart Dozy  (1820-1883), the great Orientalist scholar and Islamophile (i.e., by any objective standard, notwithstanding Ghosh’s uncontrolled spraying of the ridiculous charge of “Islamophobia”), wrote a four-volume magnum opus (published in 1861 and translated into English by Francis Griffin Stokes in 1913), Histoire des Musselmans d’Espagne (A History of the Muslims in Spain). Pace Ghosh’s distorted reportage, here is Dozy’s historical account of the mid-8th century “conversion” of a Cordovan cathedral to a mosque:

All the churches in that city [Cordova] had been destroyed except the cathedral, dedicated to Saint Vincent, but the possession of this fane [church or temple] had been guaranteed by treaty. For several years the treaty was observed; but when the population of Cordova was increased by the arrival of Syrian Arabs [i.e., Muslims], the mosques did not provide sufficient accommodation for the newcomers, and the Syrians considered it would be well for them to adopt the plan which had been carried out at Damascus, Emesa [Homs], and other towns in their own country, of appropriating half of the cathedral and using it as a mosque. The [Muslim] Government having approved of the scheme, the Christians were compelled to hand over half of the edifice. This was clearly an act of spoliation, as well as an infraction of the treaty. Some years later, Abd-er Rahman I [i.e., the “Muslim prince” in Ghosh’s redacted narrative] requested the Christians to sell him the other half. This they firmly refused to do, pointing out that if they did so they would not possess a single place of worship. Abd-er Rahman, however, insisted, and a bargain was struck by which the Christians ceded their cathedral….



Indeed by the end of the eighth century, the brutal Muslim jihad conquest of North Africa and of Andalusia had imposed rigorous Maliki jurisprudence as the predominant school of Muslim law. Thus, as Evariste Lévi-Provençal (1894-1956)—the greatest modern scholar of Muslim Spain whose Histoire de l’Espagne Musulmane remains a defining work—observed three quarters of a century ago:


The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in a blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation.

For example, the contemporary scholar J.M. Safran discusses an early codification of the rules of the marketplace (where Muslims and non-Muslims would be most likely to interact), written by al-Kinani (d. 901), a student of the Cordovan jurist Ibn Habib (d. 853), “…known as the scholar of Spain par excellence,” who was also one of the most ardent proponents of Maliki doctrine in Muslim Spain:

…the problem arises of “the Jew or Christian who is discovered trying to belnd with the Muslims by not wearing the riqā [cloth patch, which might be required to have an emblem of an ape for a Jew, or a pig for a Christian] or zunnār [belt].” Kinani’s insistence that Jews and Christians wear the distinguishing piece of cloth or belt required of them is an instance of a legally defined sartorial differentiation being reconfirmed…His insistence may have had as much to do with concerns for ritual purity and food prohibitions as for the visible representation of social and political hierarchy, and it reinforced limits of intercommunal relations



Charles Emmanuel Dufourcq (1914-1978) , another important modern scholar of Muslim Spain,  provides these concrete illustrations of the resulting religious and legal discriminations the subjected non-Muslim “dhimmis”suffered, and the accompanying incentives for them to convert to Islam:

A learned Muslim jurist of Hispanic Christian descent who lived around the year 1000, Ahmed ibn Said ibn Hazm (father of the famous mid-eleventh-century author Ibn Hazm) gives glimpses, in several of his juridical consultations, of how the freedom of the “infidels” was constantly at risk.  Non-payment of the head-tax by a dhimmi made him liable to all the Islamic penalties for debtors who did not repay their creditors;  the offender could be sold into slavery or even put to death.  In addition, non-payment of the head-tax by one or several dhimmis – especially if it was fraudulent – allowed the Moslem authority, at its discretion, to put an end to the autonomy of the community to which the guilty party or parties belonged.  Thus, from one day to the next, all the Christians [or Jews} in a city could lose their status as a protected people through the fault of just one of them.  Everything could be called into question, including their personal liberty… Furthermore, non-payment of the legal tribute was not the only reason for abrogating the status of the “People of the Book”;  another was “public outrage against the Islamic faith”, for example, leaving exposed, for Moslems to see, a cross or wine or even pigs.


…by converting [to Islam], one would no longer have to be confined to a given district, or be the victim of discriminatory measures or suffer humiliations…Furthermore, the entire Islamic law tended to favor conversions. When an “infidel” became a Moslem, he immediately benefited from a complete amnesty for all of his earlier crimes, even if he had been sentenced to the death penalty, even if it was for having insulted the Prophet or blasphemed against the Word of God: his conversion acquitted him of all his faults, of all his previous sins. A legal opinion given by a mufti from al-Andalus in the ninth century is very instructive: a Christian dhimmi kidnapped and violated a Moslem woman; when he was arrested and condemned to death, he immediately converted to Islam; he was automatically pardoned, while being constrained to marry the woman and to provide for her a dowry in keeping with her status. The mufti who was consulted about the affair, perhaps by a brother of the woman, found that the court decision was perfectly legal, but specified that if that convert did not become a Moslem in good faith and secretly remained a Christian, he should be flogged, slaughtered and crucified

Finally, expanding  upon Professor Jane Gerber’s thesis on the “garish” myth of a Golden Age, the late Richard Fletcher (in his, “Moorish Spain”) offered a fair assessment of interfaith relationships in Muslim Spain, and his view of additional contemporary currents responsible for obfuscating that history:



The witness of those who lived through the horrors of the Berber conquest, of the Andalusian fitnah in the early eleventh century, of the Almoravid invasion—to mention only a few disruptive episodes—must give it [i.e., the roseate view of Muslim Spain] the lie. The simple and verifiable historical truth is that Moorish Spain was more often a land of turmoil than it was of tranquility…Tolerance? Ask the Jews of Granada who were massacred in 1066, or the Christians who were deported by the Almoravids to Morocco in 1126 (like the Moriscos five centuries later)…In the second half of the twentieth century a new agent of obfuscation makes its appearance: the guilt of the liberal conscience, which sees the evils of colonialism—assumed rather than demonstrated—foreshadowed in the Christian conquest of al-Andalus and the persecution of the Moriscos (but not, oddly, in the Moorish conquest and colonization). Stir the mix well together and issue it free to credulous academics and media persons throughout the western world. Then pour it generously over the truth…in the cultural conditions that prevail in the west today the past has to be marketed, and to be successfully marketed it has to be attractively packaged. Medieval Spain in a state of nature lacks wide appeal. Self-indulgent fantasies of glamour…do wonders for sharpening up its image. But Moorish Spain was not a tolerant and enlightened society even in its most cultivated epoch.

"sensitivity" to what? these people are Suffi Muslims. get it? not Wahhabi Sunni, or any other conservative type. Suffis.

you don't even know the difference, so don't talk about "sensitivity" to me.

the reason Suleiman the Magnificent gave the Christian sites in Jerusalem to the Greek Orthodox Church is very telling.

after he sent the Crusaders home with their tails dragging, he had to decide what to do with their churches. the Christians had turned Muslim sites into the stables, and homes for pigs. he was determined he was  going to do better than that.

he did not want to give them, the church lands, over to the Roman Catholics, who had attacked him. but he knew that was not all of Christianity. he gave them to Antioch, the Greek Orthodox Church.


he knew the difference between the various groups. 1000 years ago. he was that intelligent, and educated.



you would think we could do the same, and make the distinction.

he felt that, unlike the way the Christians had treated his religion's sites, that Christian sites should be returned to Christians.

so he gave them to Antioch Church.

 



   
   

you know, it was Suleiman the Magnificent  that insured we still have Calvary, and the way of the Cross, and all of it is because of Suleiman the Magnificent and his decision to allow it to exist. and all the Churches of the first 1000 years.










   
and you continue to trash his religion? I do not get your meaning at all.

he was a gentleman. an educated man.

[localrevolt]

It is extremely easy to make casual links between groups -

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/fox-shareholder-funded-mosque-imam/

So basically if you watch Fox News, you increase its ad revenue which increases its share price which increases the amount of money that Al-Waleed bin Talal can donate to the new Islamic center in NYC so that more controversy can erupt and more debate can be had on Fox News. Repeat.

No THAT is funny.

"Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#Shareholders

"Beck repeatedly burst into moral outrage, demanding why people are held “to a different standard” and why the media refused to be “consistent” with its reporting. Of course, during his monologue, Beck never mentioned that the very Saudi Prince Beck accused of being behind the 9/11 attacks is a close friend  of his own boss, Rupert Murdoch, or that Beck’s employment at Fox News is financed by that same Prince. Without a tinge of irony in his voice, Beck implored his listeners not to trust any offering of money from Prince Alwaleed, despite the fact his own salary depends on him:

    BECK: Didn’t we almost kind of do that? Do you remember what happened right after 9/11 with Rudy Giuliani? Do you remember Saudi Arabia came and said, we want to help. This guy [pointing at Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud] came over and said ‘I want to give you a $10 million dollar check.’ Rudy Giuliani said, you see that over there? I don’t think we want your help. You already sent us help. And you flew that help into the plane, into the the trade centers. The same prince later blamed the U.S. policy for the attacks. Giuliani said, take your check, we don’t want your money. There is no way America, that if it was us, that we would allow that to happen. Why do we hold people to a different standard? [...]

    BECK: We answered this question on the beating. We just have to be consistent. "

[John Florida]

It is extremely easy to make casual links between groups -

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/0821/fox-shareholder-funded-mosque-imam/

So basically if you watch Fox News, you increase its ad revenue which increases its share price which increases the amount of money that Al-Waleed bin Talal can donate to the new Islamic center in NYC so that more controversy can erupt and more debate can be had on Fox News. Repeat.

No THAT is funny.

"Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#Shareholders

"Beck repeatedly burst into moral outrage, demanding why people are held “to a different standard” and why the media refused to be “consistent” with its reporting. Of course, during his monologue, Beck never mentioned that the very Saudi Prince Beck accused of being behind the 9/11 attacks is a close friend  of his own boss, Rupert Murdoch, or that Beck’s employment at Fox News is financed by that same Prince. Without a tinge of irony in his voice, Beck implored his listeners not to trust any offering of money from Prince Alwaleed, despite the fact his own salary depends on him:

    BECK: Didn’t we almost kind of do that? Do you remember what happened right after 9/11 with Rudy Giuliani? Do you remember Saudi Arabia came and said, we want to help. This guy [pointing at Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud] came over and said ‘I want to give you a $10 million dollar check.’ Rudy Giuliani said, you see that over there? I don’t think we want your help. You already sent us help. And you flew that help into the plane, into the the trade centers. The same prince later blamed the U.S. policy for the attacks. Giuliani said, take your check, we don’t want your money. There is no way America, that if it was us, that we would allow that to happen. Why do we hold people to a different standard? [...]

    BECK: We answered this question on the beating. We just have to be consistent. "

 How do you suggest that we or Beck stop a person from legally buying stock in any company?

 I thought Becks income comes from his viewership numbers and add revenue?Is the prince an advertiser? Beck wasn't stopped from doing a report on the Prince was he or is your problem that he didn't drag his boss into  a 9-11 conspiracy?Had he said nothing about the prince what would your problem be then?

[localrevolt]

 How do you suggest that we or Beck stop a person from legally buying stock in any company?

 I thought Becks income comes from his viewership numbers and add revenue?Is the prince an advertiser? Beck wasn't stopped from doing a report on the Prince was he or is your problem that he didn't drag his boss into  a 9-11 conspiracy?Had he said nothing about the prince what would your problem be then?
[/quote]

I threw the Beck thing in just for fun, but I don't think you get it. The big deal is who is funding this mosque, not some 9-11 conspiracy.  If we are supposed to follow the money, why is it a big surprise when someone turns up who has something to gain from all this publicity? The prince doesn't have to advertise anything; he makes money when eyeballs tune in to Fox News or buy the NY Post.  Who are the leading news organizations leading the charge against the mosque? Fox News and the NY Post.

The thing from Beck was from back before the mosque controversy.  As of now, the Prince's name is not mentioned on the Fox shows when they talk about the mosque. You don't find that interesting?

[John Florida]

 How do you suggest that we or Beck stop a person from legally buying stock in any company?

 I thought Becks income comes from his viewership numbers and add revenue?Is the prince an advertiser? Beck wasn't stopped from doing a report on the Prince was he or is your problem that he didn't drag his boss into  a 9-11 conspiracy?Had he said nothing about the prince what would your problem be then?

I threw the Beck thing in just for fun, but I don't think you get it. The big deal is who is funding this mosque, not some 9-11 conspiracy.  If we are supposed to follow the money, why is it a big surprise when someone turns up who has something to gain from all this publicity? The prince doesn't have to advertise anything; he makes money when eyeballs tune in to Fox News or buy the NY Post.  Who are the leading news organizations leading the charge against the mosque? Fox News and the NY Post.

The thing from Beck was from back before the mosque controversy.  As of now, the Prince's name is not mentioned on the Fox shows when they talk about the mosque. You don't find that interesting?
[/quote]


  I find anything that goes unreported interesting.Why is my favorite question.As for FOX reporting the story,who else is going to report it? How many are only reporting one side of it?And how many are blowing it off as a non story.


 If FOX wants to know where the money is coming from and the Prince's name is in there you don't think it will get reported??But since we don't know who's funding it's going to be hard to tell isn't it?

[natvrabit]

Rancor Over Mosque Could Fuel Islamic Extremists : NPR

? Unintended consequences by some of throwing the fuel on the politically created 'firestorm' of the community center and mosque.

[1911A]

Rancor Over Mosque Could Fuel Islamic Extremists : NPR

? Unintended consequences by some of throwing the fuel on the politically created 'firestorm' of the community center and mosque.

Is that NPR's worry or is that the implication coming from some of the practitioners of the religion of pieces?

[John Florida]

Rancor Over Mosque Could Fuel Islamic Extremists : NPR

? Unintended consequences by some of throwing the fuel on the politically created 'firestorm' of the community center and mosque.

   Holy Mackerel NPR made a declaration!!! RUN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN!! THE SKY COULD BE FALLING!! MAYBE!

 and then again if they see that people are still willing to put up a fight for something they believe it could also make them think that maybe were not finished yet and that there just might be a fight left in some of us.


 Fear of what some nutcase thinks isn't a concern to some of us.We've seen what they can do.

[natvrabit]

Rancor Over Mosque Could Fuel Islamic Extremists : NPR

? Unintended consequences by some of throwing the fuel on the politically created 'firestorm' of the community center and mosque.

   Holy Mackerel NPR made a declaration!!! RUN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN!! THE SKY COULD BE FALLING!! MAYBE!

 and then again if they see that people are still willing to put up a fight for something they believe it could also make them think that maybe were not finished yet and that there just might be a fight left in some of us.


 Fear of what some nutcase thinks isn't a concern to some of us.We've seen what they can do.

I didn't say I agreed with the thought lines of this article. But it did pique my curiosity as to IF this flap COULD move in that direction to benefit the extremists and therefore thought it worthy of posting for food for thought.

[1911A]

Rancor Over Mosque Could Fuel Islamic Extremists : NPR

? Unintended consequences by some of throwing the fuel on the politically created 'firestorm' of the community center and mosque.

   Holy Mackerel NPR made a declaration!!! RUN SOMETHING COULD HAPPEN!! THE SKY COULD BE FALLING!! MAYBE!

 and then again if they see that people are still willing to put up a fight for something they believe it could also make them think that maybe were not finished yet and that there just might be a fight left in some of us.


 Fear of what some nutcase thinks isn't a concern to some of us.We've seen what they can do.

I didn't say I agreed with the thought lines of this article. But it did pique my curiosity as to IF this flap COULD move in that direction to benefit the extremists and therefore thought it worthy of posting for food for thought.

What article? and is this NPR's extrapolation or have threats been issued from the religion-of-pieces practitioners?

[zorro]

A holocaust survivor is cursed out by a left wing nut at the rally against the ground zero mosque, August 22, 2010.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/MF_tL8m9e-c&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/MF_tL8m9e-c&amp;rel=0</a>

[mary51802]

It happens. People on opposite sides all call each other names. I have heard conservatives call liberals idiots and cuss at them. This is not news.

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

Everything gets excused now doesn't it?

Kill thousands of Americans, blame America for the people you killed.

Claim your are defending the 1st amendment by telling a Jew to shut up. (Does this not strike anyone else as totally ironic?)

Tell a holocaust survivor he is a Nazi and its not news, but say some Muslim's are being insensitive to the families of the dead and the President must intervene to see that the insensitivity continues.

Truly amazing.

[zorro]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sPzC0ZEZ8NQ&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sPzC0ZEZ8NQ&amp;rel=0</a>

[zorro]

Every Ground Zero Mosque Opponent is a Bigot?
by Greg Gutfeld

http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/ggutfeld/2010/08/30/every-ground-zero-mosque-opponent-is-a-bigot/#more-389769

So today I got a press release from something called Faith in Public Life. It begins:

As hateful rhetoric and fear-mongering about the Park51 Islamic Center in lower Manhattan creates a growing climate of hate and violence toward American Muslims, prominent religious leaders and national security experts will join together … to denounce growing Islamophobia and to urge the development of the New York community center-as a means of both protecting our nation and of upholding our American values of freedom, resilience, tolerance, and cooperation.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/fIlCiX0LIqA&amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/fIlCiX0LIqA&amp;rel=0</a>

At this point, I have to ask myself: am I hate-monger? Is my mom a fear-monger? Does 70 percent of America provide a combination of hate and fear-mongering?

I mean – when you’re talking about people who have problems with the mosque – those are the people, you’re talking about.

So again I ask the folks who smugly dismiss mosque opponents: Do you believe that every single person against the mosque is a bigot?

Because that’s a massive number, and it includes me, my mom, many friends (from both sides of the political spectrum), also blacks, whites, Hispanics, Jews…even Muslims.

(But oddly, no Griffin lovers)

So – again, are they all hateful bigots?

Or…do you think some might have a legitimate reason for their opinion?

You know it’s true. In fact, you KNOW there’s a legit reason for being pissed – but you ignore it.

And I want to know why – cuz maybe you can convince me I’m wrong.

See, we all agree with the right to pray wherever. If you want to build the mosque, fine. But I can still say it’s a jerky thing to do. Like I said, annoying someone is legal. But it still makes you annoying.

But if your response is, “Greg, you just don’t like Muslims,” then screw you. Instead of clinging to this bigotry meme in order to skirt debate, just meet me on a field of common sense – and who knows, you might win.

And if you don’t, you’re a racist, homophobic islamophobic arachnophobe.

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