FINAL GRADE FOR THE CHATHAM COALITION? A BIG FAT F

[truedemocrat]

Come out to Goldston, Bennett, Bonlee, and Silk Hope and you can poll people and see. Go to the town cafe's and all you hear is about how good Republicans are. The farm population here is not small, organic farms but large beef and goat and corn operations and they know the Repubs are more farm bill friendly. I have had actual Republican poll workers who blog here confirm this before. I just came back from the BP at Harpers Crossroads and they are all Obama bashing and Perdue bashing. Scroll down to the political standings in this city data info page.
http://www.city-data.com/county/Chatham_County-NC.html

Mary, you are quite right that those areas/precincts are Republican-leaning, and have been for quite awhile.  You can look at the election returns to see that.  It still doesn't translate into your assertion that the county, as a whole, is more Republican though.

[mary51802]

Come out to Goldston, Bennett, Bonlee, and Silk Hope and you can poll people and see. Go to the town cafe's and all you hear is about how good Republicans are. The farm population here is not small, organic farms but large beef and goat and corn operations and they know the Repubs are more farm bill friendly. I have had actual Republican poll workers who blog here confirm this before. I just came back from the BP at Harpers Crossroads and they are all Obama bashing and Perdue bashing. Scroll down to the political standings in this city data info page.
http://www.city-data.com/county/Chatham_County-NC.html

Mary, you are quite right that those areas/precincts are Republican-leaning, and have been for quite awhile.  You can look at the election returns to see that.  It still doesn't translate into your assertion that the county, as a whole, is more Republican though.

Well I am also counting the converts who are going to vote away from the incumbants this year. There are many Democrats who say they will vote independently now and many I know personally are not happy with the coalition and the current BOC.

[Elvis]

Mr. Lucier seems to be trying to have this both ways. It is not possible to tell if he has an active roll in the coalition or not but it appears he allows his name to be used in their fund raising letters and his name appears in their materials etc.

The Coalition is a PAC. They take money and promote their political views. As is obvious the Coalition has lost a lot of its appeal because of the caustic personalities associated with it. In my opinion Mr. Lucier will either take a stand against the coalitions more nasty members or he will forever be associated with their nastiness.

Chatham is a county dominated by Democrats. If any Republican wins in 2010 it will be a massive indictment of the Coalition and its tactics. Why? Because I believe the bulk of folks in Chatham had not problem with the policies the coalition folks ran on. Now, as is obvious, some of the more silly positions they have created may have changed that.

It doesn't look like there is any doubt that Lucier, Thompson, and Vanderbeck are working with and support the tactics of the Chatham Coalition. This is off of the Coalition website:

"The Chatham Coalition is organizing the communications and get-out-the-vote efforts for the Lucier-Thompson-Vanderbeck team. In addition to canvassing, we will send postcards and targeted mailings and pay for the billboard on 15/501. All the funds will be spent directly for re-election of the team."

[whatsup]

It doesn't look like there is any doubt that Lucier, Thompson, and Vanderbeck are working with and support the tactics of the Chatham Coalition. This is off of the Coalition website:

"The Chatham Coalition is organizing the communications and get-out-the-vote efforts for the Lucier-Thompson-Vanderbeck team. In addition to canvassing, we will send postcards and targeted mailings and pay for the billboard on 15/501. All the funds will be spent directly for re-election of the team."

Thanks for the information. Wasn't aware of this.

If I were thinking about cutting George Lucier some slack, this pretty much killed that sentiment.

[Snowball]

Billboard on 15/501?  It looks like Thompson and Vanderbeck don't know where the majority of their constituents live/work/play/travel. Then again, maybe they do.

 

[zorro]

Billboard on 15/501?  It looks like Thompson and Vanderbeck don't know where the majority of their constituents live/work/play/travel. Then again, maybe they do.

 

The billboard is owned by Voller. See the connection. How convenient.

[Pat Barnes]

SBB,
      In reply to response #40 on this thread, the former Chair and Vice- Chair of the Chatham County Coalition relieved themselves from their given positions, and ran against Patrick Barnes and Mike Cross just 2 YEARS AGO.
     Tell me that's not wanting to influence, and control,  an already majority board. Please.
     From my own personal experience, I know for a fact, chosen candidates take part in Coalition meetings on a regular basis. The very fact that folks are questioning where is the money coming from, and where is it going to,is rather silly, when it is quite simple, and obvious.
     I spent many Coalition meetings with George and I at the same table. One big table.
     Carl Thompson was there. Tom Vanderbeck was there. Jefferey was there. I was there.
     Tom and I used to sit beside each other. I was in charge of his signs duing the 2006 election.
     Funny, how was I was later accused of sign stealing by John Hammond, during the 2008 election, when I would like to think I helped set the current standard for proper sign placement.
     But you wouldn't know anything about that. You just know what you've been told, and what has been fabricated to seem apparent.
     I respect your opinion, but I believe, in the end, I have better choices to lead me in the future.
 
     I see the majority of your post hollow, and full of the current rhetoric your chosen team is espousing. If you feel I am only doing this because I have a personal beef, my respect for you will be significantly lessened.
     Hon', I'm 46, and a citizen of this county.
     I was Pat, the redheaded hippy carpenter/musician that had everything in common with you, long before this started.
     I was here long before most of the current voters were here. Doesn't matter which side.
     I will be here long after most of you are gone.
     I'm just being honest, that's all.

     And that, is what's scaring everybody.

     I'll end, quoting you- I am on no one's campaign committee, and haven't been asked by anyone, to write this. I just feel the citizens of this county are getting a raw deal.. and, if I can do something about it, I will.
     
     I'm for Chatham,.. nothing more, nothing less.

[zorro]

If you don't like some of the leaders of the Chatham Coalition, please don't let that influence who you choose for your County Commissioners.

So if George Lucier is taking money from a hate group, that is okay with you?

[zorro]

SBB -

You also most have missed a couple of the Chatham Coalition's "Ten Commandments" -

7. The only persons who speak on behalf of the Coalition are those individuals listed on our website as members of our Steering Committee. The Coalition makes no effort to muzzle the free speech rights of those who support the Coalition. Likewise the statements or actions of our supporters who are not members of the Steering Committee cannot be attributed to the Coalition.

8. Our published issues statements represent the positions of the vast majority of the voters of Chatham on a broad range of issues facing the county, and therefore we are not a “special interest.” We do not represent a narrow demographic segment of the population, a political ideology, an economic or professional interest or even a particular issue. Our concern is to elect county officials who will lead and who will listen.

[srvfan]

     From my own personal experience, I know for a fact, chosen candidates take part in Coalition meetings on a regular basis. The very fact that folks are questioning where is the money coming from, and where is it going to,is rather silly, when it is quite simple, and obvious.
     I spent many Coalition meetings with George and I at the same table. One big table.
     Carl Thompson was there. Tom Vanderbeck was there. Jefferey was there. I was there.

I've wondered about this concept since the 3 guys wearing white cowboy hats were elected.

At what point do coalition meetings turn into political meetings that should have records kept for public reasons?  Apparently, 3 of the 5 sitting BOC members attend coalition meetings and a fourth Ms. Kost was formerly a fairly high ranking member of the coalition.

And this is not just a coalition question, it can apply in a variety of political situations, this is just the local situation.  At what point does a meeting go from a political strategy meeting with a PAC and their steering committee to a meeting where decisions impacting the county are made?  At some point should these meetings be subject to the "sunshine" rules?  How would the general public know the meetings shouldn't follow open records laws?

[munn5]

At what point do coalition meetings turn into political meetings that should have records kept for public reasons?  Apparently, 3 of the 5 sitting BOC members attend coalition meetings and a fourth Ms. Kost was formerly a fairly high ranking member of the coalition.

And this is not just a coalition question, it can apply in a variety of political situations, this is just the local situation.  At what point does a meeting go from a political strategy meeting with a PAC and their steering committee to a meeting where decisions impacting the county are made?  At some point should these meetings be subject to the "sunshine" rules?  How would the general public know the meetings shouldn't follow open records laws?

srv - the last line below may answer your question.

From http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/north-carolina/open-meetings-laws-north-carolina
Open Meetings Laws in North Carolina
What Meetings are Covered?

What Government Bodies Are Covered?

The North Carolina Open Meetings Law covers public bodies. The law defines a "public body" as

    any elected or appointed authority, board, commission, committee, council, or other body of the State, or of one or more counties, cities, school administrative units, constituent institutions of The University of North Carolina, or other political subdivisions or public corporations in the State that (i) is composed of two or more members and (ii) exercises or is authorized to exercise a legislative, policy-making, quasi-judicial, administrative, or advisory function.

N.C. Gen. Stat. § 143-318.10(b). http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_143/GS_143-318.10.html

Public bodies can be part of state, county, or municipal government, and they share two salient features. First, they involve two or more persons acting jointly. The Open Meetings Law thus do not apply to government officials who act in an individual capacity, like the governor or a mayor, when they meet with their subordinates. Second, to be covered by the Open Meetings Law, a body must exercise a legislative, policy-making, quasi-judicial, administrative, or advisory function. This sounds complicated, but it means that groups carrying out most government functions are covered, with the exception of courts carrying out their traditional judicial function. Examples of public bodies include state boards and commissions, city councils, school boards, and governing boards affiliated with The University of North Carolina. The law also applies to any committee or subcommittee that carries out activities on behalf of a public body or advises a public body. It does not apply to federal government bodies.

What is a Meeting?

In addition to determining what government bodies are covered by the North Carolina Open Meetings Law, you'll need to figure out which of their gatherings or activities constitute an "meeting" for purposes of the law (and therefore must be open to the public). The North Carolina Open Meetings Law requires that the official meetings of public bodies be open to the public. The law defines an "official meeting" as a gathering of a majority of members of a public body "for purposes of conducting hearings, participating in deliberations, or voting upon or otherwise transacting the public business" of the public body. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 143-318.10(d) http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_143/GS_143-318.10.html . The term "official meetings" applies beyond formal meetings called to take public action, and include gatherings to weighh and reflect on the reasons for possible decisions and information-gathering sessions.

The Open Meetings Law does not cover a gathering of the professional staff of a public body. It also does not cover a social or ceremonial gathering, so long as the public body does not use the gathering as an excuse for getting around the open-meetings requirements.

[srvfan]

The Open Meetings Law does not cover a gathering of the professional staff of a public body. It also does not cover a social or ceremonial gathering, so long as the public body does not use the gathering as an excuse for getting around the open-meetings requirements.

thanks for the info

looks like most other regulations, very ambiguous and open to interpretation

[whatsup]

SBB -

You also most have missed a couple of the Chatham Coalition's "Ten Commandments" -

7. The only persons who speak on behalf of the Coalition are those individuals listed on our website as members of our Steering Committee. The Coalition makes no effort to muzzle the free speech rights of those who support the Coalition. Likewise the statements or actions of our supporters who are not members of the Steering Committee cannot be attributed to the Coalition.

8. Our published issues statements represent the positions of the vast majority of the voters of Chatham on a broad range of issues facing the county, and therefore we are not a “special interest.” We do not represent a narrow demographic segment of the population, a political ideology, an economic or professional interest or even a particular issue. Our concern is to elect county officials who will lead and who will listen.

Hasn't the Chatham Coalition the small extreme left-wing portion of the Chatham County Democratic party than pretty much runs the party?

Is Karl Kachergis just chairman of the Chatham party in name only?

What has happened to the non-coalition portion of the local democratic party?

[Silk_Hope]

I overheard Karl one day state that they didn't know how to run this years election since they couldn't run on the "throw the bums out" platform.

[srvfan]

In the past the coalition(along with lots of other political groups) have campaigned on "vote for us because we're not them".  Sure they use some political speak about ideas, and goals, etc., but they never really back up what they're going to do, or have concrete arguments or proof of why their ideas were better.  They always relied on "we're not them". 

When you're campaigning against an incumbent that strategy may work, but when you're running for re-election and you still can't defend or justify what you've done or what you're doing then it appears that they resort to more desperate measures.

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