Weapons at school? 365 suspension or not?

[gonewest]

For the second time in as many years, a student has brought a knife to school and threatened another child...both of these incidents took place in the middle school at Perry Harrison.

Both times, the students involved got minimal suspensions and were allowed to return to school.

I believe there is a statute that requires students found with any weapon on campus were to be suspended for  365 days?  Does anyone know the details of this statute?  I guess there can be circumstances I am unaware of but I do recall a student at Northwood accidental left a hunting knife in  his car from a weekend camping trip, it was seen by the SRO (in his car) and HE got suspended for 365 days.  So, is it a case rules not fitting all crimes? or individual rules for different students?  A weapon on campus is a weapon on campus...and when there is a threat involved, then that student doesn't need to be with the general population, imo.

[gertot]

Please refer to the Chatham County Schools website, look under board policies and then policy number 8480.  The 365 day suspension mentioned can be modified by the superintendent as outlined in that policy code.  The statutes referred to in that policy code merely define a weapon and the violation, either a misdemeanor or a felony.

Gerald Totten

[gonewest]

So then the student is charged, one way or the other?

If they are charged with a felony, are they allowed to stay in school?

What are the victims rights and where is the policy that protects them from bullys who bring weapons to school?

Ten day suspension for bringing a knife on campus, accompanied by a threat against a 12 year old?  What message does that send the rest of the student body?

[Asparents]

I've heard (through the grapevine) that there has been another incident at Perry Harrison involving a student bringing a knife to the recent middle school dance.  I wonder if this student will also receive a minor suspension?  How are parents notified, how are teachers warned of this potential danger?  I can't understand why bringing a knife to school or a school event does not warrant a more serious response.  It concerns me that my son may be at school with students who pose a real risk, yet I wouldn't know about this except for other parents.  Where is the school to parent communication? 

[Gene Galin]

Heard about the incident at last Friday's Perry Harrison Middle School dance with the knife yielding thug at dinner this evening.

If what I hear is true than a mere ten-day suspension is unacceptable.

What if the kid with the knife had actually stabbed the other student? What then? What questions would we be asking? Why did this happen? How could we have prevented this? Wasn't anyone aware of what was going on? What kind of school are we running when a student can bring a knife school and threaten another?

What would the school's response to the parents of the injured student be? We're sorry, we didn't see this coming. We're sorry, we did everyhting in or power to prevent this. We're sorry that is the way society is these days.

Solutions will be offered including the possibility of putting in metal detectors? searches by security guards? School councelers would be assigned to assist with the grief?

Rather then let this kind of thing get to that stage and be reactive, wouldn't it be easier to be proactive at this point and mead out the appropriate level of punishment?

10 days? That's a two week vacation.

Would something longer be way too severe? I don't really think so!

[kimmimom]

I do know from my daughter that the child involved in the Jan incident has not yet returned to school (as of Fri, I did not ask today).  That child did attempt to show up to the dance, had a talk with the asst principal and was told to leave.  i do not know if his punishment was 365 days, but he has been out for 3 weeks now according to the dates on this board and my daughter saying he has not been back to school (unless he was out for suspension and then got sick, I don't know).

I too would like to be kept informed of situations that happen like this at school.  I do have a right to know what is happening where my child spends 6-7 hours a day.  If, for privacy reasons, they can't share the student's names, so be it (the kids all know anyway), but they need to be letting parents know what is happening even if the letter only says today there was an incident where a X-grader was found wtih a knife at school or whatever happened.  I also have concerns about why a 14 YO is in 6th grade, which apparently is the case of the child involved in the dance situation Fri night.   

This was the first dance I did not chaperone and will be the only dance I do not chaperone.  Not that I could have done anything, but my daughter was scared, which is a shame at a place where kids should feel safe!!  Thankfully the deputy was there and took the child out to her car and what happened then is in question depending on what child you talk to (I have heard the grandparents were called and the other story is he was taken into custody by another deputy).  But the next time, it may not be a "happy" ending (as in no one was injured). 

Two such instances in less than a month make you wonder what is going on. 

[gonewest]

Please direct these questions to the school board/superintendent.

543 3626 is the county office number


I have....and gotten very little response.

A knife is not a mandatory 365, only guns and explosive devices.  A knife or other weapon carries the punishment deemed fit by the SUPERINTENDENT.  She supercedes the Principal on this one.

I questions this in January and got your basic "it's our business...not yours". You won't see it in the paper or hear about it officially from the school...it's hush, hush, hush.  They legally can't disclose the names but they could let parents know what happened and how it was dealt with.

The problem at Harrison?  NO DISCIPLINE.  I have an eight grader and they think they run the school.  Some parents from that class  have actually been asking for discipline for years.  These are "good kids"? who show little respect for adults or school rules, IMO. And one of them is mine.  Rules I have at home, like just being polite and saying please and thank you and not interrupting, aren't reinforced at school.  I know it's not the schools responsibility to raise these kids but there's more to succeeding in life than reading and math.  Some things should not be tolerated.

[Beel]

I'm wondering where the NRA posters are on this--you know, the folks who believe the answer to all of society's ills is when we all, each and every one, packs heat at all times, and knows how to use it.  I know when that day comes, I'll be a lot more careful with my shopping cart.  I went to school back in the era of the dinosaurs (and you should have seen some of my teachers!).  Back then, kids often had a pocket knife, or even a switchblade, which was pretty cool unless it popped open in your pocket.  A friend of mine was once sliced up pretty good in a knife fight off school grounds, and went on to be an 8th grade basketball star.  99% of the time, having a knife in your pocket meant you could cut a piece of string or whittle a stick.
I still carry a pocket knife.  My daughter was in the ER last year, and I had to give it to the security guy to get in to see her, and then when I came back he was gone and I had to go to a lot of trouble to find someone to give it back to me--the dang things are worth $30 or $40 bucks these days.  Surely when it comes to knives, the principal should have some leeway about penalties.  Kicking a kid out for a year because there was a hunting knife in his car seems flat out insane and worth a law suit.  It shouldn't end up being a precedent for kicking every kid out for a year, as seems to be the suggestion here in this thread.  We should allow principals to use good sense on these things rather than establishing a hard and fast rule that will not, cannot, apply fairly in all situations. 

A firearm is quite another thing, no matter what the NRA says about it.  Even a totally accidental discharge of a firearm can and does kill.  There was a woman in Greensboro a few years back who got herself a pistol and carried it in her purse.  She had a drunken son, and one morning he was being threatening, and she pulled out her pistol and fired a warning shot, just like they are always doing on teevee.  That bullet killed a young mother, a nurse, who was riding down I-40 a block away in the passenger seat of her car, her child in her arms.  That's how guns are.

[cudamom]

Perhaps one preventable measure should be to address bullying at the elementary level first.  I have personally fought the system (principals, superintendent, etc.) to promote harsher rules for these little bullies that start "clubs", make fun of other children because they won't do what the bullies want them to, push kids down on the playground and threaten them if they tell a teacher.  Yes, these things sound "minor" now.  But if you do the research I have, you learn these are the first signs of more serious offences later in school.  I was ignored, and made to feel like I was over-reacting.  I don't think my child vomiting, crying, and not wanting to go to school is over-reacting to the situation.  There were other children who were being bullied, but their parents chose to let it blow over.  Well, it never did, it just got worse. 
    What I'm trying to say is, don't let it go unnoticed.  Talk to the teachers, administrators, school board and let them know your concerns and what they are going to do about it.  If enough people get involved, maybe schools can be a safer place to send our children.

[Coffee]

I'm wondering where the NRA posters are on this--you know, the folks who believe the answer to all of society's ills is when we all, each and every one, packs heat at all times, and knows how to use it.

It's no wonder you're against the second ammendment.

Do you want to discuss the inalienable right to self defense, or children going to school armed?

People kill each other with knives, too; even unintentionally.

Children are a special case; their rights are limited along with their responsibility.

Institutions can ban or mandate whatever they want.

That woman killed an innocent victim because she was pointing the gun in the wrong direction. Blaming the gun just rationalizes her manslaughter. And it certainally wasn't a 'totally accidental discharge of a firearm '.

Bullies in school, or anywhere else, need to be -stopped- by whatever means necessary.

[Beel]

I don't want to hijack this thread with NRA drivel.  Just making the point that the distinction between a gun and a knife is there.  Yes you can kill with a knife, but it's not nearly so easy. 

[Coffee]

We used to use our belt buckles as weapons.

Of course, it's up to the institution what their policies are going to be. I would personally distinguish between firearms, explosives and edged weapons. I might even make distinctions within the catagories; i.e. a penknife vs a samurai sword, a firecracker vs a claymore mine. But I would agree with banning all of them from a school.

I think the '365' decision should be based also on the characteristics, attitudes, history and actions of the perp-student in question and not only on the specific contraband. Weapons are made dangerous by dangerous people. A kid bringing an unloaded stainless steel .50 automag to show and tell shouldn't be punished as much as one bringing a loaded .22 zip gun to a fight. The offense should be based on the threat that the -student- poses to others.

[cards05]

My understanding of this situation is that one boy (Boy A) said some insulting things about another boy's (Boy B) girlfriend during the week leading up to the dance.  This led to a minor altercation during school.  Boy B and a friend (Boy D) then plotted to bring a knife to the VD dance and exact his revenge.  Another student (Boy C) had heard of this plot and reported it to a teacher.  Because it was reported, Boys B and D were not allowed into the dance and were given 10-day suspensions; they will probably return to school on March 5.  Boys A and C are afraid of what may happen when the other boys return from their suspensions.

In response to Kimmimom who states "I also have concerns about why a 14 YO is in 6th grade, which apparently is the case of the child involved in the dance situation Fri night," there is a valid reason why the boy is 14 YO in 6th grade.....and it has nothing to do with intelligence or extreme behavior.  His age, though, really isn't an issue where the dance is concerned.  As this was a middle school dance, open to 6th, 7th and 8th graders, the ages of the students range from 11 YO up to 15 YO.

While I do believe a tougher penalty should have been enforced on this student, I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how well PHS enforces their non-bullying policies.  You will never rid schools completely of bullying; it's always been around.  The difference between today and "the olden days" when I was in middle school, is that there is a lot less physical violence today....at least in PHS....than in the school I attended.  I had to learn to run fast to survive 7th grade!!!!  There were usually several fights a month in the halls of my middle school; back then, though, fighting was done with fists and not knives.  I've heard of very, very few actual fights at PHS.

I've taught my own child to ignore any taunts that might be thrown at him ("Just consider the source!"), and be sure to report any physical threats to a teacher.  This has seemed to work well for him.

[Asparents]

Very interesting responses to this topic; obviously, many concerned parents.  When my child told me that the student (the knife incident at PHS, prior to the dance) threatened another in the bathroom due to girlfriend issues, that seemed to warrant a serious response--regardless of the weapon involved.  Since he has not yet returned to school, perhaps it has been well-handled.  I do still think that parents should have been notified and not have to rely on the grapevine.  I guess this is a concern to express to Dr. Hart, although it seems that the principal should be able to handle this with a simple note sent home, reassuring parents that the situation is under control and being handled correctly.
I'm glad that THIS website is a source of some information, since the school did not provide any.

[gonewest]

The 365 punishment is being taken into "advisement".  I think that came about after so many different people, inlcuding staff, expressed concern.

And sorry, but there does need to be an age limit in middle school.  My daughter is 13 and in the 8th grade.  14 in the 6th?...so by time he is in the 8th he is 16 and driving to middle school? No, I don't think so.

There are age limits at every level of school, including middle school.

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