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Author Topic: Chatham Downs appearance update  (Read 1246 times)
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Gene Galin
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« on: January 31, 2007, 09:25:16 AM »

From:    Lynn Hayes
Date:    2007/01/31 Wed AM 07:41:44 EST
To:    Chatham Chatlist
Chatham Downs
   
   
   
Dear Chathamites -
 
I thought I'd pass this along.  I have been pretty disgusted with the appearance of the Chatham Downs shopping center, particularly since being acquainted with the developer I had expressed confidence that they would do a great job with the very attractive plan that was submitted.  I sent the Lat Purser company an email yesterday complaining about the progress of the landscaping and received an email back that said, in part:
 
************

Without going into lengthy detail, in an effort to be environmentally conscious, the irrigation aspect of our landscape plan provided for using our on-site collected storm water, supplemented with an on-site deep well system, to provide the water source for our irrigation system rather than relying upon the already overburdened County water system.  We experienced difficulties getting the irrigation system fully operational and coupled with the drought conditions we experienced during the summer and early fall, we had very little germination of the seeding that was placed by our landscaper.

 

We have also been disappointed with the performance of our landscape contractor, who was also responsible for installation of the irrigation system and are presently waiting on a quote from another landscape company to address the difficiencies that are evident around the site.  You may have noticed areas where we had placed sod - these areas are doing well.  We plan on placing more sod in selected areas around the site.  We will also be addressing the grassing around the detention pond and our street (15/501 and Lystra Rd.) frontages.

 

It is our understanding the First Citizens will be initiating construction of their branch bank facility once they have received their building permit through Chatham County which we understand may happen within the next several weeks.  Their parcel, which is owned by First Citizens is on the left as you enter our property from the 15-501 entrance.  Once First Citizens is completed and landscaped, this will fill the void that is seen at the front of the property and should complete the village feel of the shopping center.

 

As this is a high profile intersection, we want the property to be attractive and well maintained and a pleasing part of the community.  We will be working diligently with the a new landscaper over the next several weeks to take advantage of the spring growing season.  We look forward to this shopping center being one that we all can be proud of.

 

********************

 

I was pretty pleased with the response, and if more people write to them maybe we'll get them to move more quickly.  Write to Bob Otten at bob.otten@latpurser.com.

 

best wishes,

Lynn Hayes
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 09:43:26 AM »

The most annoying part of the whole thing is all the trees they cut down in the first place.  It seems like they could have found a way to make the existing foliage work in the new layout.  It's still looking pretty rough. 
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 11:43:51 AM »

The response from Lat Purser is BS, in my opinion.  Where there is a will, there is a way, and there is no reason it should take more than a year to establish groundcover at that site.  The irrigation system is a joke, I agree - I've often seen it spraying out into Lystra Road, not on the barren earth - so I'm glad to hear the developer is looking for another contractor.  But they've had more than a year to do something about it, and they haven't.  I'm really disappointed to hear they are using well water for landscaping.  This needs to change. 

I'm glad to see the developer finally pulled the landscaping off the slope and put it back up at the top of the hill behind Ace Hardware.  Shrubs had been sliding down the muddy hill for some time, heading toward the stormwater pond.  They finally tacked that bank down to keep it from moving, but it took probably 6 months for them to address just the sliding shrubbery.

The sediment pouring off that site is a major problem, and has been since they began construction.  Folks have complained to the County and State repeatedly over the past year, to no avail.  The lame sediment control feature at the Lystra Road entrance is always flooding, pushing water back in to Lystra Road, and is insufficient to deal with the water that drains to that point in the landscape.  Look down toward that little creek and one can see the inches of sediment that has resulted from failing sediment controls.

And regarding the lighting on the sign on Lystra Road - it needs to be redirected so it doesn't blind those driving down the road. 

My children call it the Ugly Shopping Center.  From day one construction at this site seems to have been poorly executed with apparently little oversight.
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2007, 11:48:28 AM »

Which summer and fall did we have a drought?
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2007, 09:18:28 AM »

CHATHAM DOWNS

Conditional Use B-1 Business District
with a
Conditional Use Permit for Retail/Office Use
This request is for a change in Zoning District and for a Conditional Use Permit
for a +/-28 acre tract of land situated on Highway 15-501 at the southeast quadrant of the
intersection with Lystra Road (SR 1721). The northeast corner is owned by the same
family that owns this pad. The southeast quadrant is suitable for a commercial mixed
use, while the northeast quadrant offers the opportunity for a medium density residential
development at some future date. The proposed conditional land use is for the following
anticipated uses: banks; drug stores, retail food stores; professional and business office
use and retail stores and personal service shops similar to those listed in the Chatham
County Zoning Ordinance dealing in direct consumer and personal services.
Neighborhood eating and drinking establishments are appropriate, however could not
currently be considered due to water flow limitations until and unless public sewer shall
become available to this site. Therefore, the request is to change the current zoning on
this parcel from Residential / Agricultural to Conditional Usel Business District zoning.
This application is also for a Conditional Use Permit for the specific use categories
itemized above. All these uses are permitted under current Chatham County B-1 zoning
guidelines. The applicant, Lat Purser & Associates, submits this application upon the
request of local land owners who would like to develop this parcel along lines that would
benefit the owners while simultaneously providing convenient, attractive and well-
controlled shop/work alternatives for their neighbors.
General Application Requirements:
1.
Location: This parcel is located at the intersection of Lystra Road (SR 1721) and
US 15-501, southeast quadrant. The current zoning is Residential / Agricultural.
The site is in a WSIV-Protected Area watershed district, which shows no
floodable area but which does limit this land to a maximum of 36% impervious
area.
The site consists of roughly 28 acres, the only known easements being one to
BellSouth for a box on Lystra Road and those that have been deeded to the
Department of Transportation in its widening of Highway 15-501, and which are
already incorporated into Chatham County tax records. The site is currently
undeveloped, with the exception of an older residential structure which is no
longer occupied. Electricity is provided by Progress Energy (CP&L) and water
service (16” pipe on 15-501 and 12” pipe on Lystra Road) by Chatham County.
Additionally, there is an 8” natural gas transmission line servicing the tract.
There is no sewer service at this time.
To our knowledge, no other Conditional Use Permits have been granted for this
site.
2.
Description of Use. The use being requested is a Conditional Use Permit for
retail / office / service uses currently permitted under Chatham County B-1 zoning
guidelines.
The increased emphasis on Highway 15-501 as the primary north-south corridor
through Chatham County encourages commercial development. In fact, this
growth is anticipated in Chatham County’s Community Plan with the obvious
desire to control and direct this inevitable growth in a direction that will minimize
unsightly and haphazard growth and enhance the quality of life for the residents
of Chatham County in years to come.
The Lystra Road intersection represents a desirable location for retail / office /
public service amenities since it is a primary access to the residential
developments east of Highway 15-501, as well as the existing North Chatham
Middle School and the proposed high school for which land has been purchased at
the Jack Bennett intersection with Lystra. The convenience of a commercially
mixed use project which allows local residents and pass-by traffic to stop in for
groceries, pick up small retail items, drive through an ATM or rent movies when
they pick up children after school or head home from work cannot be overstated
in a day and age when time and convenience must go hand-in-hand with
aesthetics, safety and visual impact to create a well-rounded benefit for
consumers.
Lat Purser & Associates has had success in recent years in creating a traditional
small town “Main Street” concept which combines access to necessary amenities
with the feel and texture of a rural village layout. This neo-classical approach
totally reduces the unattractive image of a “strip shopping center” and creates a
shopping district which is carefully customized to the subject setting – whether it
be the more formal small town streetscape fronting on a village green or a cluster
of shops and offices such as is representative of more rural market centers. Lat
Purser & Associates invests both time and money into a passion to create this
village feel in all of its projects, knowing that these sorts of projects will be a
legacy that this firm can continue to look on with pride for years to come.
A review of “The Chatham Plan” indicates that this approach complies with the
spirit and direction of Chatham County’s long-range goals for development along
this corridor and, therefore, recommends development of this nature for future
growth in this area.
3.
Site Plan. See attached site plan.
4.
Start and Completion Projections. The project is estimated to begin construction
late in 2003 or early in 2004. The first phase of the project will consist of a
45,000 square foot Harris Teeter, with 16,000 additional square feet in retail and
office use laid out in a cluster design as indicted on the attached site plan. The
grocery shall be open for business approximately nine months from ground-
breaking, with the additional small shop/office space available for lease within the
same time period. Additional phases, building up to 117,000 square feet total,
shall be pursued as market conditions and available sewer capacity allow.
The desired village concept, with strong visual effects and pedestrian amenities,
will become stronger as additional square footage and uses can be added.
5.
Adjoining Property Owners. A list of adjacent property owners is attached to the
cover form for this application.
6.
Reference to Existing County Plans. This site is not specifically targeted in
existing County plans, but does fall under The Chatham Plan’s emphasis on siting
commercial uses along major highways and designing these commercial sites to
retain a rural crossroads or village character, and integrating these uses with other
nearby development.
¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤
Specific Application Requirements:
Finding #1: The use requested is among those listed as an eligible conditional use in the
district in which the subject property is located or is to be located.
The requested use is eligible for the site under the Chatham County B-1
(Conditional Use Business District) zoning for which we are applying.
Finding #2: The requested conditional use permit is either essential or desirable for the
public convenience or welfare.
1.
It can be argued that very little beyond police protection, fire protection and
medical facilities should be defined as “essential” if other specific uses are within
reasonable driving distance, given the realization that different people will have
different definitions of “reasonable”. On a realistic basis, few would argue that
convenient access to basic amenities (i.e. grocery stores, banking facilities, drug
stores, and the like) enhances the quality of life for the residents of a community.
People living close to or within city limits generally have no problem in accessing
these consumer services, however the convenience diminishes as people move
further and further out from a community’s center.
Chatham County has addressed these outlying consumer needs in its emphasis on
cross-roads commercial centers to serve rural areas. The Lystra Road / Highway
15-501 interchange is an appropriate location for the surrounding area, with
residential and school uses which already require vehicular turns at this
intersection. The proposed traffic light further simplifies access and creates a
logical location for residents to incorporate their daily shopping errands into their
existing school and/or work travel routes. It should further be pointed out that
most of the population in this trade area (as outlined in the map in the
Demographic section attached herewith) is east of 15-501, which will allow a
major portion of the consumer traffic to approach the location from the east along
Lystra Road, avoiding 15-501 and thereby diffusing increased traffic which would
otherwise funnel specifically along 15-501. The overall desirability of this project
is enhanced by this convenience, coupled with the developer’s proven ability to
create the desired traditional rural style and establish design standards that will
compliment this pastoral setting.
Most importantly, current demographic data indicates a need for expanded
grocery service which has already passed the “convenience” level for northern
Chatham County. As is the case for all major grocery chains, Harris Teeter has
approved this location based on internal research formulas applied to general
demographic figures. The general rule of thumb is that 3,000 households, or a
population of 8,000 people, will support a full-service grocery facility. As is
shown in the demographic overview attached to this application, a 2003 estimate
indicates 27,000 individuals within a 5-mile radius, with a projected growth
which will exceed 31,000 within the next five years. Even a conservative
interpretation of these numbers indicates a market which is not adequately
serviced by the current available grocery facilities.

There is currently one other commercial center which includes a grocery store in
reasonably close proximity to this proposed center. Chatham Commons Shopping
Center, located north of this site at 11312 Highway 15-501, is anchored by a
Lowes Foods. This center is tightly positioned on its land, which suggests limited
room for any substantial expansion. A Food Lion east of Governor’s Club
provides a second location for quick, convenience store needs.
In conclusion, these most current demographic figures support the need for at
least one other customer oriented food service for this market area just to meet
current requirements for level and diversity of services. And, should population
figures increase as projected, even this expanded service shall be inadequate
within five years.
2.
No public improvements will be required for this project.
3.
The estimate of the tax consideration for the developed site will consider build-
out of this project’s Phase I as indicated on the attached site plan, versus today’s
vacant/wooded parcel. The tax rate provided by the County is .7064 per $100 of
value for real property tax computation, and projects out as follows:
C
URRENT
V
ALUE
E
STIMATED
B
UILT
-O
UT
V
ALUE
– P
HASE
I
Market Value:
$288,284
Market Value:
$8,000,000
Tax Value:
$ 2,883
Tax Value:
$80,000
Tax Rate: .7064/$100
Tax Rate:
.7064/$100
Annual RE Taxes:
$ 2,036
Annual RE Taxes:
$56,512
Additionally, this first phase should generate retail sales of between $15,000,000
and $20,000,000 annually.
Finding #3: The requested permit will not impair the integrity of character of the
surrounding or adjoining districts, and will not be detrimental to the health, safety, or
welfare of the community.
1. There should not be any unusual or extra demand on emergency services. Water
is available at the site. Emergency vehicular access is considered in the layout of
the parking areas and the property shall be adequately lighted for security
considerations.
2. The most current NC DOT traffic counts (2001) for this intersection are attached.
The expansion of Highway 15-501 to a 4-lane divided highway will further
control and streamline current traffic patterns. Additionally, a traffic signal is
proposed for this intersection, which greatly improves traffic flow and safety
when compared to a mid-block development.
A full traffic study has been performed, for which the final report by Mandala
Services, Inc. is attached.
4.
The surrounding property is as yet undeveloped, however, in anticipation of
future development and eventual neighbors, considerable thought has been given
to the design standards which shall apply. This is particularly true is it relates to
the integration of buildings into open spaces. This was necessary on several
levels: Primarily, the emphasis in the initial design of this project was to focus on
the rural character of this setting with the centrally positioned, clustered layout of
the structures. In addition to the visual effect and internal traffic flow, it has been
necessary to accommodate the current waste water limitations and the emphasis
that these limitations place on water flow management. Accordingly, for a variety
of reasons, overall setbacks easily meet existing Chatham County requirements of
50 front feet and 20 side feet minimum requirements. Perimeter plantings and
grassed areas, as shown on the attached conceptual site plan, enhance a pastoral
feel and further protect future adjoining land users. Landscape plantings and
grassy slopes edge the roadway perimeters.
5.
Exterior lighting shall comply with those parameters set forth in Chatham
County’s revised Lighting Ordinance, as drafted in May 2003. Accent and safety
lighting will be downwardly focused and wall-mounted for illumination of the
buildings. Entrance lighting will be provided at access points to the site. Signage
lighting and parking lighting are also provided for in the total design. Vertical
burning metal halide lamps are to be mounted on thirty-five foot (35’) poles.
Lighting shall have the flexibility to be used in twenty-four hour (24 hr.)
operations, and is to be on a photocell to turn on and a timer to turn off power to
coincide with the grocery store operations. Parking lot lighting outside of the
grocery parking area shall be dimmed at the end of business hours. Unless
otherwise addressed, lighting shall be similar to that currently used in the Harris
Teeter shopping center located at Meadowmont Village, 116 West Barbee Chapel
Road in Chapel Hill.
6.
There should be little or no noise created by this center. The only noise that could
be a possibility would be that of the speakers associated with a drive-through fast
food restaurant; however, this is not a use which can currently be accommodated
due to the lack of public sewer, which effectively prevents a restaurant of any
nature in this center at this time.
7.
There will be no chemical, biological or radioactive agents involved in any of the
uses anticipated for this project.
8.
Signage will be required on Lystra Road and on Highway 15-501 and, although
not yet finalized, will be installed in compliance with design, materials and
construction guidelines as outlined by the North Carolina Building Code for this
jurisdiction.
Finding #4: The requested permit will be consistent with the objectives of the Land
Development Plan.
1.
This site is situated at the intersection of Lystra Road and Highway 15-501, and
therefore complies with the stated desire that development on highways be done
at intersections and/or nodes.
2.
As designed, this project will help Chatham County achieve several of the
specific policy objectives outlined in the Land Development Plan of The Chatham
Plan to encourage compact communities with a mix of activities as development
occurs. Specifically, these objectives include:
• Preserve both the form and function of rural character . . .
• Designate economic development centers in order to promote a diversified,
sustainable business community.
• Develop an integrated approach to protecting and promoting high-quality
open space.
• Site commercial uses along major highways in clusters at specific, designated
locations; design these commercial sites to retain a rural crossroads or village
character; and integrate these uses with other nearby development.
• Ensure that commercial development pays for itself.
• Site commercial clusters/compact communities so that they might be able to
be served by transit in the future, especially along US 15-501 north of
Pittsboro.
In meeting the above itemized criteria, this project represents land development in
an area which already supports upscale residential and school facilities, hence
complying with the stated policy that land development and conservation will
reflect balanced growth whereby the following specific issues are considered:
• Benefits and burdens of growth are shared,
• Growth consist of a mix of different types of development, and
• Development is guided to suitable locations and is designed appropriately.
3.
This site lies within the WSIV-Protected Area watershed district. Accordingly,
overall impervious coverage has been limited to the 36% maximum allowance for
developments without curb and gutter. Initial site evaluations by Soil and
Environmental Consultants, PA (“S&EC”) have outlined placement of septic
fields and storm water management, as shown on the attached site plan.
Finding #5: Adequate utilities, access roads, drainage, sanitation and/or other necessary
facilities have been or are being provided.
1.
(a) This project will use County water supply, for which the developer shall be
responsible for the necessary connections. It is anticipated that this project will
require almost 4,400 gallons per day with the opening of the Harris Teeter, and
build to a total of just under 6,100 as Phase I retail and office space achieves full
occupancy during the initial years of operation. With a 16” pipe running along
Highway 15-501 and a 12” pipe running along Lystra Road, this demand will
represent approximately one percent (1%) of the available water supply.
(b) Usage figures from comparably sized Harris Teeter facilities, combined with
projections provided by Soil and Environmental Consultants, PA (“S&EG”) for
other anticipated uses, indicate that a 61,000 square foot build-out should generate
approximately 6,100 gallons of wastewater per day. Our initial Phase I is
designed at 61,000 square feet. The developer will be responsible for the
installation of a private subsurface septic system as designed by S&EC to be
adequate for this usage, in compliance with State and County permitting
requirements.
2.
Attached please find initial soil evaluations conducted by S&EC, which have been
submitted to Chatham County’s Environmental Health Department for review in
connection with this application. Although further attention will have to be given
to the full design of a septic system sufficient for the intended use, initial findings
are that this land will support a septic system adequate to the needs of the 61,000
square feet designed as our Phase I build-out.
3.
The site is situated in the southeast quadrant of the intersection of Lystra Road at
Highway 15-501, and driveway access will be off both roads. A right-in, right-
out drive, with deceleration/acceleration lanes, will access off Highway 15-501.
Two driveways shall access off Lystra Road. The turning of each drive will be a
function of traffic patterns and volume of traffic.
4.
This site is located in a WSIV-Protected Area watershed district. The watershed
ordinance limits the maximum developed impervious area to 36% of the site. In
addition, storm water management facilities must be constructed to retain the first
½” of runoff from the developed site. This proposal complies with all watershed
requirements. Two storm water basins shall be constructed to manage run-off
from the site per County and State water quality guidelines.
¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤ ¤
In summary, this project is recommended as a means of bringing high-end
commercial mixed use facilities to the northern portion of Chatham County at a node site
ideally located to balance residential and school uses already in place. It conforms with
the County’s stated desire to pursue development of this nature along the 15-501 corridor,
specifically that portion north of Pittsboro - not only to service the existing Chapel Hill
traffic, but in its strategic placement for future transit service.
Specifically insofar as Chatham Downs is concerned, a cluster of detached
buildings, with appropriate architectural accents is a more costly approach to providing
the retail and office facilities considered here than would be the more traditional strip
center. However, this area supports the rural marketplace feel of the centrally placed,
human-scale buildings. The inward-facing placement creates warmth and encourages
pedestrian use. Overall, the pastoral setting with be further enhanced by the open spaces
and landscaped borders designed to surround the commercial center on the remaining
two-thirds of the available land.
A strong recommendation for a positive consideration of this project is the
increased revenues which it will represent for Chatham County. As the tract now lies, it
generates a little over $2,000 in real estate taxes annually. Even without considering the
impact of sales tax returns on between $15,000,000 and $20,000,000 annually in Phase I
sales, the initial build-out of this project will represent over $56,500 in property taxes for
the County each year.
This commercially mixed use project, in its final build-out, provides a strong and
appropriate use which incorporates a well thought out land plan for the intersection of
Lystra Road and US Highway 15-501. This signalized, well traveled intersection offers
the dynamics best suited for a coordinated mixed use project on the subject corner, and
will compliment the eventual development of the northeast quadrant across Lystra Road.
Lat Purser & Associates and the partners of the proposed project appreciate the
opportunity to submit this proposal for consideration and thank you in advance for your
support of this project for Chatham County.
Sincerely,
Lat W. Purser, III,
representing the Carr family
1 September 2003
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gonewest
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2007, 09:32:47 AM »

Purser shouldn't be allowed to build a dog house in the county.

And Bot is right.  This is total bull. I've been contacting Purser for almost a year now and there is always some cock and bull story about why this place looks so bad.

Plant grass and trees.  It won't change the elevation or the layout with the backs of ACE and other building facing Lystra.  It's a mess and it's the planning boards fault and whoever else was supposed to be over seeing construction sites.  If this can happen right out in plain view then whats going on in some of these places that aren't?

Are there fines that should/could be imposed?
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Beel
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2007, 09:33:08 AM »

There's a terrific shopping center right up the road: Cole Park.  Vote with yr feet.  They even have latte and it's drive thru. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2007, 04:36:19 PM »

Some people evidently thought my post was in support of Lat Purser, that is not the case.  But they did make an effort to respond to me and I thought if lots of people contact them we might get some action. 
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domspe
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 08:45:37 AM »

cole park? when i think of that shopping center, i think Lowes foods is overpriced and the parking lot is horrendous. oh, and the video store is never open when i need it & now its closing for good Sad

sure, the ugly buildings with the backs facing lystra & 15-501 are annoying, but is not going to the establishments going to hurt who owns/built chatham downs? NO, it only hurts the businesses & their owners.
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 08:55:44 AM »

I noticed landscapers re-sodding at Chatham Downs Wednesday afternoon on my way home from work.  I hadn't really paid that much attention to the Lystra Road stretch before, but it does have that bomb site look to it, doesn't it?
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gonewest
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2007, 09:46:28 AM »

But it's the tenants, Harris Teeter etc., who can hold the developer accountable.

They contracted for something they are not getting.  I have spoken to the managers at Harris Teeter, and they are concerned and are trying everything short of legal action (and that could be coming) to get this place looking somewhat presentable.

But the irreparable damage is done.  The trees are gone, the earth is gone, the elevation is what it is.  We've got to stop allowing this slash and burn development plan.  Drive thru Siler on 64...you'd think a tree never grew there.
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 03:44:09 PM »

This from their conditional use permit application has got to make you LOL  Grin
emphasis added by me

Lat Purser & Associates has had success in recent years in creating a traditional
small town “Main Street” concept which combines access to necessary amenities
with the feel and texture of a rural village layout. This neo-classical approach
totally reduces the unattractive image of a “strip shopping center” and creates a
shopping district which is carefully customized to the subject setting – whether it
be the more formal small town streetscape fronting on a village green or a cluster
of shops and offices such as is representative of more rural market centers. Lat
Purser & Associates invests both time and money into a passion to create this
village feel in all of its projects, knowing that these sorts of projects will be a
legacy that this firm can continue to look on with pride for years to come.
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 03:49:43 PM »

Here's another chuckle's worth -

Specifically insofar as Chatham Downs is concerned, a cluster of detached
buildings, with appropriate architectural accents is a more costly approach to providing
the retail and office facilities considered here than would be the more traditional strip
center. However, this area supports the rural marketplace feel of the centrally placed,
human-scale buildings. The inward-facing placement creates warmth and encourages
pedestrian use. Overall, the pastoral setting with be further enhanced by the open spaces
and landscaped borders designed to surround the commercial center on the remaining
two-thirds of the available land.
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botanist
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 09:17:36 AM »

They could have saved themselves a lot of time and money if they would have left some of the vegetation in place.  They wrecked a lovely site that could have been made a feature in the Chatham landscape.
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lynnhayes
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2007, 10:48:46 AM »

The squeaky wheel does get the grease, they started laying sod last week.  Yay!
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