Chatham News/Record, 5/1/08 - Chatham Forest Delays Cause Concern to Engineer

[mamacash]

If you guys are looking at the DWQ February Report......is Randy Voller responsible for page2 line 4 where Bynum WWTP has not 1 but 3 violations.  Priority is interesting on the BBS. He must not be responsible or he would be hung. I see no facts here that warrant personal slander of Randy Voller. The facts fall short of Facts and more of innuendo. Someone must like him, they elected him mayor.

[fools gold]

Charles 39,

You have an ax to grind. Why? I have no idea.

We have reviewed these monthly reports, which did not even exist before Voller was in office. You fail to mention that they cover all projects commercial and residential.

Ironically, if you look at them the only one that is very "detailed" involves the Mayor's company. Could it be political? Who knows? Certainly the normal repair issues and associated problems with the other developments seem to be left out of the "reports".  For instance, there were sinkholes in another community and major issues with sanitary sewer pumps in another.

I think it is good to hold the businesses accountable, which started with Mr. Voller not because of him.

Since my understanding is that most of those items are being addressed by the appropriate consultants and contractors I wonder what your agenda is?  Perhaps smokescreens and diversions from the real pressing business of Chatham County and Pittsboro?

Making a public spectable out of minor potatoes reeks of political thuggery.

Until you can show that you apply your judgements equally across the board and to yourself you will continue to be biased source. 

Where is your animated anger about water quality, embezzlement at the ABC store, updating the waste water plant, encouraging parks and recreation, investing in your downtown, starting a public transit route to UNC and Chapel Hill, investing in local business, planning your community....your obsession reveals your tell-tale heart.

[Charles39]

Charles 39,

You have an ax to grind. Why? I have no idea.

We have reviewed these monthly reports, which did not even exist before Voller was in office. You fail to mention that they cover all projects commercial and residential.

Ironically, if you look at them the only one that is very "detailed" involves the Mayor's company. Could it be political? Who knows? Certainly the normal repair issues and associated problems with the other developments seem to be left out of the "reports".  For instance, there were sinkholes in another community and major issues with sanitary sewer pumps in another.

I think it is good to hold the businesses accountable, which started with Mr. Voller not because of him.

Since my understanding is that most of those items are being addressed by the appropriate consultants and contractors I wonder what YOUR agenda is?  Perhaps smokescreens and diversions from the real pressing business of Chatham County and Pittsboro?

Making a public spectable out of minor potatoes reeks of political thuggery.

Until you can show that you apply your judgements equally across the board and to yourself you will continue to be biased source. 

Where is your animated anger about water quality, embezzlement at the ABC store, updating the waste water plant, encouraging parks and recreation, investing in your downtown, starting a public transit route to UNC and Chapel Hill, investing in local business, planning your community....your obsession reveals your tell-tale heart.

fool, that is a very good defense.

But just to be clear, are saying that Voller connected sewer lines before he had the proper permits?

[mamacash]

Thank you Fools Gold....see I knew your name wasn't Golden Fool

[Charles39]

This is the part I was talking about fool:

But in a memo dated April 18 from Hydrostructures, it is stated that the flow has been introduced into Phase 5B and Phase 9 in a violation of the DWQ permit that requires that an Engineer's Certification be completed along with other documentation.

The memo states that apparently the entire project is in violation of DWQ permits and 'the State would consider these sections of infrastructure to be operating illegally."

[fools gold]

Charles 39,

We have read those reports as well and asked for clarification. Something you might attempt, too. 

The reports are written in a rather heavy handed language and a subsequent study of these reports will bear that out. Professional opinions appear in some reports and it is hard to tell whether these are more politically based than reality based. 

Is there a mention in any other report for any other developer in Town of their contractors, subcontractors, state of their business, etc? The answer is no.

Please go visit Magnolia Trace adjacent to Pottestone Village.  The developer of that project went bankrupt and disappeared years ago. Voller actually lives in his community and plans to retire there.

The Town suffered from the Magnolia Trace situation and those citizens were left with that mess. Minutes in the past year discuss this community. Where is your righteous indignation? Were you involved in Pittsboro then?  Did you even care?  This is but one of many mismanaged messes and none have anything to do with the Vollers.

There has been a long history in Pittsboro of all kinds of infrastructure nonsense and schenagians. Water lines and sewer lines extended to friends, lines installed across property lines without proper easements, mistakes made when the US 64 bypass was built that left the Town in a position of potentially boring under US-64 to install correctly sized water lines, no conduits under US-64 for sewer lines, manholes built incorrectly, maps destroyed, engineering plans lost, old minute books lost...the list is very long and has nothing to do with the Vollers or their allies. Would you know anything abut these issues?

You mention a sewer line, so we discovered that it is not even in use and according to the consultanting engineer it is a revision of the old Chatham Forest plans and permits. Currently the situation is a work in progress with the Town and State in order to straighten out the official paper work. Does that really elevate to the level of articles and mudslinging?

Maybe if you actually asked Mr. Voller and his father to look at the approved plans and met with the appropriate consultants this wouldn't be an issue. In fact this is just a minor snap shot of what the construction/development business is doing every single day. Again, this appears to be more political than real and continues to show your bias. Who cares about engineering changes and the paperwork of the engineers? Isn't that what the Town and its consultants are paid to handle? As long as they are "on it" so to speak this sordid business seems like a ridicules witch hunt. Are you looking for witches?

For example: would you be worried about the education of former students taught by Mr. Brooks or  loans made at Mr. Walker's Bank to businesses and individuals or actuary and statistical modeling done by Mr. Harrington or cars repaired or sold by Mr. Bryan or work Ms. Baldwin does at the UNC School of Dentistry or other legal work done by Mr. Messick?  Those are their professions so according to your logic we the people need to know what's going on with them because there is some public imperative at work.  Can you see why this issue is ridicules?  Where is the abuse of power? In a weak Mayor system the power resides with the board so what's your point?

How has your effort on the BBS improved our water quality? What have you done in your cyber missives to bring dollars into town? How are you furthering the community? You aren't. You are either protecting yourself or someone close to you from scrutiny. The classic Karl Rove tactic in that scenario is to attack, which you have done quite well.

If you are not protecting someone than please list Voller's platform and tell the world what you disagree with and why you disagree with it. That is called the democratic process.

 

[Charles39]

Charles 39,

We have read those reports as well and asked for clarification. Something you might attempt, too. 

The reports are written in a rather heavy handed language and a subsequent study of these reports will bear that out. Professional opinions appear in some reports and it is hard to tell whether these are more politically based than reality based. 

Is there a mention in any other report for any other developer in Town of their contractors, subcontractors, state of their business, etc? The answer is no.

Please go visit Magnolia Trace adjacent to Pottestone Village.  The developer of that project went bankrupt and disappeared years ago. Voller actually lives in his community and plans to retire there.

The Town suffered from the Magnolia Trace situation and those citizens were left with that mess. Minutes in the past year discuss this community. Where is your righteous indignation? Were you involved in Pittsboro then?  Did you even care?  This is but one of many mismanaged messes and none have anything to do with the Vollers.

There has been a long history in Pittsboro of all kinds of infrastructure nonsense and schenagians. Water lines and sewer lines extended to friends, lines installed across property lines without proper easements, mistakes made when the US 64 bypass was built that left the Town in a position of potentially boring under US-64 to install correctly sized water lines, no conduits under US-64 for sewer lines, manholes built incorrectly, maps destroyed, engineering plans lost, old minute books lost...the list is very long and has nothing to do with the Vollers or their allies. Would you know anything abut these issues?

You mention a sewer line, so we discovered that it is not even in use and according to the consultanting engineer it is a revision of the old Chatham Forest plans and permits. Currently the situation is a work in progress with the Town and State in order to straighten out the official paper work. Does that really elevate to the level of articles and mudslinging?

Maybe if you actually asked Mr. Voller and his father to look at the approved plans and met with the appropriate consultants this wouldn't be an issue. In fact this is just a minor snap shot of what the construction/development business is doing every single day. Again, this appears to be more political than real and continues to show your bias. Who cares about engineering changes and the paperwork of the engineers? Isn't that what the Town and its consultants are paid to handle? As long as they are "on it" so to speak this sordid business seems like a ridicules witch hunt. Are you looking for witches?

For example: would you be worried about the education of former students taught by Mr. Brooks or  loans made at Mr. Walker's Bank to businesses and individuals or actuary and statistical modeling done by Mr. Harrington or cars repaired or sold by Mr. Bryan or work Ms. Baldwin does at the UNC School of Dentistry or other legal work done by Mr. Messick?  Those are their professions so according to your logic we the people need to know what's going on with them because there is some public imperative at work.  Can you see why this issue is ridicules?  Where is the abuse of power? In a weak Mayor system the power resides with the board so what's your point?

How has your effort on the BBS improved our water quality? What have you done in your cyber missives to bring dollars into town? How are you furthering the community? You aren't. You are either protecting yourself or someone close to you from scrutiny. The classic Karl Rove tactic in that scenario is to attack, which you have done quite well.

If you are not protecting someone than please list Voller's platform and tell the world what you disagree with and why you disagree with it. That is called the democratic process.

 

Are you suggesting that a well know engineering firm is somehow basing their conclusion on politics? 

Did the state fine Voller in Feb due to politics?

[belle]

charles 39, why have you no comment about anyone on the town board, or any other mayoral candidate? are they all perfect in their personal and professional lives?

you seem to assume our interest in Mr. Voller. why do you deprive us of the minutae of the other local politicos' lives?

[fools gold]

Charles,

The "well known engineering firm" you reference is Hydrostructures which is a PAID consultant to the Town. Who authorizes payment? The town manager.  Who authorizes contracts? The elected board. Who executes on behalf of the board? The chief elected official.  The influence and decisions are with the town manager position and the elected board.  The firm is a consultant not an employee of the town and it rightfully knows who butters its bread. (Ultimately we hope they all work for the people.)

You are basically micromanaging. When the engineering firm and Voller's consultants clear out all old business will you be there like Joshua with a trumpet declaring all is well. I suspect you will not.

Belle and others have read you well so it's time to be fair, just and even handed or just stop posting your slanted verbage.

We investigated your other issue, too. The NOV you cite is already over a year old. Voller Realty has the master storm water permit so it is the legally responsible for any sediment issues caused by Voller Realty or others covered by the applicable permit. The permit actually includes a bunch of independent property owners including over an acre owned by the Town of Pittsboro. In fact, Voller owned very little of the property that led to the NOV, but due to the permitting process was responsible for all of the property. 

I am sure they have addressed matters with DWQ since last year. Some of those issues actually had to do with paperwork and regulatory changes and other issues included problems with seeding and erosion control.  It appears that the area is in far better shape today than in 2007.  So the process worked. Good. Maybe all of those involved will stay on top of the situation.

I never heard Voller complain or try to influence the process did you? So what's the beef? Regulations became tighter, regulators did their job and supposedly justice was done.  The remarkable fact is that none of these problems occurred until after he was elected Mayor in 2005. Do you see a pattern emerging? How could the same people be in business do the same things for over ten years suddenly go from nice folks to evildoers unless there was another agenda at work. If all of those issues had happened before 2005 you may have a case, but they did not. Regulation is supposed to be devoid of politics, but apparently the opposite is true. 

Maybe when you have the time you will speak to the questions you were asked by Belle, myself and others or are you afraid to apply your rigorous standards across the board?  We already informed you about the ABC store embezzlement and Mr. Cotten's brownfield violation while assistant school superintendent at the board of education's bus depot next to the fairgrounds.  Who is the common link between these boards? Mr. Cotten.  Will you be hurling his name across cyber space in your righteous quest for justice? 

Voller has no criminal record, his business and personal taxes are paid to the Town, County, State, and IRS, none have ever declared bankruptcy nor gone through foreclosure.  From what we can tell he had speeding tickets, so he is a flawed American.

You keep opening these doors and encouraging folks to make spurious attacks.  Eventually the gaze will fall upon you and those you know and you will not enjoy what you have created.

Take your issues offline with the Vollers and stick to making our town and county a better place to live.

[Charles39]

Charles,

We investigated your other issue, too. The NOV you cite is already over a year old. Voller Realty has the master storm water permit so it is the legally responsible for any sediment issues caused by Voller Realty or others covered by the applicable permit. The permit actually includes a bunch of independent property owners including over an acre owned by the Town of Pittsboro. In fact, Voller owned very little of the property that led to the NOV, but due to the permitting process was responsible for all of the property. 

I am sure they have addressed matters with DWQ since last year. Some of those issues actually had to do with paperwork and regulatory changes and other issues included problems with seeding and erosion control.  It appears that the area is in far better shape today than in 2007.  So the process worked. Good. Maybe all of those involved will stay on top of the situation.

So we agree that Voller violated his permit and was fined for it?

[belle]

Charles,

We investigated your other issue, too. The NOV you cite is already over a year old. Voller Realty has the master storm water permit so it is the legally responsible for any sediment issues caused by Voller Realty or others covered by the applicable permit. The permit actually includes a bunch of independent property owners including over an acre owned by the Town of Pittsboro. In fact, Voller owned very little of the property that led to the NOV, but due to the permitting process was responsible for all of the property. 

I am sure they have addressed matters with DWQ since last year. Some of those issues actually had to do with paperwork and regulatory changes and other issues included problems with seeding and erosion control.  It appears that the area is in far better shape today than in 2007.  So the process worked. Good. Maybe all of those involved will stay on top of the situation.

So we agree that Voller violated his permit and was fined for it?

we agreed nobody cares, not anybody, except you. we are trying to figure out why you care.

you don't care about Max Cotten. the ABC store thing has fascinated me for years. anything on that?

[belle]

how does only one (1) liquor store in the state operate at a loss year after year?

[Charles39]

how does only one (1) liquor store in the state operate at a loss year after year?

I can only be in so many places at one time.  Why don't you investigate the ABC store and let us know.  I promise I will not label you an anti-liquorite.

[fools gold]

It is my understanding that the ABC store has been revenue neutral or in the red for at least ten years and perhaps longer. Where you around at that time Charles?

Let's pretend the Vollers did not exist. You would still have all of the problems cited in the previous posts with need for solutions. Either you are focused to hate one person or a family or you want to constructively make Pittsboro and Chatham County a better place for everyone. What is it Chuck? 

Are you a part of the solution or just another barnacle clinging to the past? We invite you to be a positive force for constructive dialogue and problem solving. Start by contacting your perceived nemesis and work it out.

[Charles39]

It is my understanding that the ABC store has been revenue neutral or in the red for at least ten years and perhaps longer. Where you around at that time Charles?

Let's pretend the Vollers did not exist. You would still have all of the problems cited in the previous posts with need for solutions. Either you are focused to hate one person or a family or you want to constructively make Pittsboro and Chatham County a better place for everyone. What is it Chuck? 

Are you a part of the solution or just another barnacle clinging to the past? We invite you to be a positive force for constructive dialogue and problem solving. Start by contacting your perceived nemesis and work it out.

See, it appears that you and belle share a similar interest.  You two can work together.  That is a good plan, you find something that interest you and you work on it.

Speaking of the future, what type of business do you think will do well over at the only entrance to Chatham Forest?

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