BOE/Central Office Conference Travel

[integrityticket]

Col. Hope you still have a combat vest. You certainly catch enough flak from the powers that protect each other from accountability.  Keep on representing the people of the county as you always have.Very few citizens can make all of these meetings, but I rest easier knowing there is a watchdog like you on guard duty.

Don't worry colonel. The people have spoken. Flint O'Brien and David Hamm will soon be there to help you in your demands for accountability.

[chrstnhsbndfthr]

Sarcasm? But in fairness, they HAVE to be an improvement over what went before, don't they?

[WanderingWizard]

I wouldn't count on it 

[Everett McGill]

I have to say that my impression over the past 2 years has been that Mr. Totten has been a hard worker for Chatham County teachers, students, and families. Last night was an unpleasant jolt. He did not understand that the Board was considering 2 amendments to the budget instead of approving the budget. He made no visible attempts at team work. His adamant statements about travel (esp the upcoming trip to their national convention) seemed to be an attempt to look more accountable to the public than his cohorts. Sorry, Mr. Totten, but that's how it seemed to me.  

This has worn me out. I probably should never have started! I hope this is my one and only diatribe![/b]

The impression, over last two years I've gotten, is not much different.  He is a hard working shock and awe, take no prisoners attitude board member.   Great for USMC.  Not so effective as a community leader charged to serve everyone and work within a diverse group.  Just my humble and probably unwelcome opinion.

Obviously, most on this board embrace and approve of his approach.  He is the hero up against many evil, incompetent, and self serving villains.  It is what it is.  The zebra will not change his stripes.    The diatribes will continue.

Perhaps an alternative approach to wearing more Flak Jackets, would be to put more effort into working hard to reach consensus to genuinely serve the students of Chatham County. The result just might be the shooting could stop and Flak jackets would not be required.   To quote someone else;  "Don't count on it"       

[joebloefromkokomo]

I have to say that my impression over the past 2 years has been that Mr. Totten has been a hard worker for Chatham County teachers, students, and families. Last night was an unpleasant jolt. He did not understand that the Board was considering 2 amendments to the budget instead of approving the budget. He made no visible attempts at team work. His adamant statements about travel (esp the upcoming trip to their national convention) seemed to be an attempt to look more accountable to the public than his cohorts. Sorry, Mr. Totten, but that's how it seemed to me. 

This has worn me out. I probably should never have started! I hope this is my one and only diatribe![/b]

The impression, over last two years I've gotten, is not much different.  He is a hard working shock and awe, take no prisoners attitude board member.   Great for USMC.  Not so effective as a community leader charged to serve everyone and work within a diverse group.  Just my humble and probably unwelcome opinion.

Obviously, most on this board embrace and approve of his approach.  He is the hero up against many evil, incompetent, and self serving villains.  It is what it is.  The zebra will not change his stripes.    The diatribes will continue.

Perhaps an alternative approach to wearing more Flak Jackets, would be to put more effort into working hard to reach consensus to genuinely serve the students of Chatham County. The result just might be the shooting could stop and Flak jackets would not be required.   To quote someone else;  "Don't count on it"       

it won't happen.

[thinkinboudit]

Col. Hope you still have a combat vest. You certainly catch enough flak from the powers that protect each other from accountability.  Keep on representing the people of the county as you always have.Very few citizens can make all of these meetings, but I rest easier knowing there is a watchdog like you on guard duty.

Don't worry colonel. The people have spoken. Flint O'Brien and David Hamm will soon be there to help you in your demands for accountability.

It is a shame the colonel appears to be the only member of the school board with business sense and the willingness to question the school employees about money matters.  I've reread this thread and don't see where he was doing anything other than asking for reasons for shuffling, a good word incidentally, money around and that spending be curtailed when possible during this current economic climate.  His statements above leave no doubt he understands the budgeted amounts and that those amendments were moving monies from one account to another and he wants to know why.  So should all taxpayers.  If I move $450,000 from one account to another I have to justify the need to do it and what happens to the place from which it was moved.  Reasonable?  I think so and that is known as checks and balances.

When we travel, we have to do exactly as the colonel said, purpose, costs and number going.  We also have to state why it is beneficial to the company for the trip to be made.

Was this meeting taped?  If so, where can it be viewed?  I'd just bet coalition Kathie's bloomers are choking her since she was named as one of the junketeers heading on the California junket.  Junket is also a good word as the colonel spelled out.

The Chatham Record had an article this week where coalition Kathie also put the screws to us taxpayers by working a deal for her client, Voller Realty.  It seems the long standing opening of Chatham Forest to 15 and 501 highways which we know from past posts was Voller Realty's obligation will now be shared between the taxpayers and Voller Realty at $30,000 apiece.  Sweet deal for coalition Kathie's client, sour deal for the rest of us. 

Maybe if it were her money being spent, she would be more cautious of the spendthrifts among us.  Since it isn't, what is another little jab in our ribs to her?
Junket to California, taxpayer payment of another's obligation and what else is on the horizon?

[Kathie]

Thinkinaboudit, you never miss a chance to disparage me and I am sick of it.  My name is not coalition Kathie.  I am my own person, always have been, always will be.  I don't answer to anyone and I make my own decisions.  I previously emailed you privately and told you that you don't know me at all.  I also offered to meet you for lunch or coffee to discuss anything at all.  Although you never gave me the courtesy of a reply, that offer still stands.  If you don't have the fortitute to reveal your identity, although I know who you are, don't hide behind your cowardly moniker and criticize and put me down.  Meet me face to face and judge me for the person I am.  You don't know anything about me and your judgments based upon political differences are completely off base.  If you want to get to know me and then criticize me based upon the real facts, that is fine.  But doing it based on knowing NOTHING is completely without merit. 

The "moving" of the $450,000 was fully explained at the meeting and has been recapped by Turtle here.  Whoever Turtle is, I am very grateful that he or she has started attending our meetings, and I hope will continue.  Others should come too, so they can see the facts for themselves.  The money was switched to another fund to HELP the schools.  Since it is anticipated that the state will cut back our funds, we want the funds to come first out of state money for certain things like salaries, which we know they tend NOT to cut.  This will PROTECT our local funds to be used for other things.  It is simply a paper shuffle designed to save us money.  This is so easy to understand.  Unfortunately, Gerald often is unable to grasp these things in our meetings.  It is unfortunate and causes a lot of unnecessary work and arguing that should never have to be done.  In fact, our staff is getting worn out.  Would not suprise me if we lost good people because of these wranglings.  While making certain statements in meetings and newspapers might make you look good to the public, it does not make you an effective elected board member.  To be effective, you have to be able to work as a board to make good policy.  If you can't work together you can't be effective.  Any elected official needs to know how to work together.  So as a board member, do you choose to make big public announcements that make YOU look good but do nothing for our schools or our students, or do you choose to keep your personal feelings more circumspect and learn to work together with other board members so that you can accomplish good things for the schools?  You only need to look at the board to see who does what - so judge for yourselves.  Grandiose announcements may be all well and fine but if you are so difficult to work with that nobody trusts you, you are an ineffective board member.  Regardless of your fan base on the bulletin board.  Much better to be disliked and actually get some good things done, in my opinion - but that's just me.

And no, my bloomers are not choking.  What a sexist, stupid statement.  I am not going on a junket.  I am going to a professional meeting of my board in order to bring back information for the schools.  I am taking off work (I am self employed so any time missed directly affects my income) and I am working for free.  I am leaving my kids for a few days which I don't like to do.  I miss them terribly when I am gone.  This trip will cost me money.  Please illuminate me as to where I am getting some big windfall here?  Since vacations without my family don't interest me in the least, I don't see how anyone could call this a junket.  But I guess that wouldn't stop you, since you know nothing about me.

As far as your comments regarding my job as an attorney representing my client, I will not dignify those with a response save to say that you have no idea, once again, of what you are talking about and I will represent the interests of ALL of my clients, which include all kinds of people and companies with all kinds of political affiliations, aggressively and to the best of my ability.  I should hope you would expect the same of your attorney.

As far as Gerald, no, I do not get my exercise jumping to conclusions, and your constant use of such idioms is long worn thin.  I have not engaged in the congnitive distortion of going beyond the evidence that exists in order to reach a conclusion that makes things look worse than they are.  I have simply stated the facts as told to me by you or as they exist in the public record.  You went to Disney, you paid for it yourself.  Big deal.  How I get my exercise is none of your business and please limit your comments to our professional relationship and not to my personal attributes. 

[Everett McGill]

First,   one dictionary in my house sums up “junket” this way:    A trip or tour, especially: One taken by an official at public expense.

Seems like this is another good word that has been hijacked to be used only for negative and inflammatory purposes. Too Bad.  For me, it is ok for anyone to go on a junket, as long as our elected representatives are open and honest about it beforehand.  That has happend here.  Surely, there was a board vote of whether or not to send these public servants?   What was the vote count?   It does not do any organization one bit of good, that if AFTER a decision is made, one or more (board) members decided to complain, whine, or grandstand  about the decision.  I am sure that is not how the USMC expects it’s officers or enlisted to carry out command decisions or policy. 

Second, if we as a community, could refocus on getting our elected board members to carry out key campaign promises and get off of trying to throw stones, then feel compelled to defend themselves in a never ending cycle of counterproductive diatribes, THEN our students and faculty members just MIGHT benefit. 

As a reminder here are some of those campaign promises (And, no, I am not a LTT proponent.  These are answers to N&O questions from the candidates back in 2006)
:

Gerald Totten: Establish a much more professional relationship with the commissioners wherein development approvals consider school needs prior to approvals. Convince the commissioners … to require developers to set aside land and some of their profits for school construction caused by those developments. Work more closely with the legislative delegation and, in concert with the commissioners, make every effort to have a land-transfer fee passed, with the proceeds dedicated to infrastructure needs caused by those developments.
Expand the language initiative in use by only one school to date. In light of Judge Howard Manning’s Leandro decision, we must create our own technically proficient teacher pool and send the teams to help in lower-performing classes where the disparities occur


Kathie Russell: We must also consider alternate methods for financing schools and infrastructure, including bonds, grants, and the land-transfer tax supported by Commissioners Mike Cross and Patrick Barnes.
We need to provide our schools with more resources to serve students who do not fall into the average population. This includes minorities, non-English speakers, low achievers and high achievers. Methods of learning and testing should be devised that take into account differences in culture, language, syntax and expression.

[munn5]

Everett, could you post the question to which you posted Gerald's and Kathy's answers below? The N&O really only asked for profile info this year. The Independent asked (among other things) "If elected, what is your one top priority for the Chatham County school system? What specific steps would you take to accomplish this goal?"

Flint O'Brien's answer (go to http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A266476 to see his entire answer to this and the other questions - I've just listed the main points for this question).
"We do have two problems that are almost completely separate: overcrowded/outdated facilities and poor academic performance. I'll answer the facility issues with the question 3.
Every Child Must be Guaranteed a High Quality Education
Step 1: Develop a professional, collaborative relationship with our new Superintendent to improve education with measureable and attainable goals.
Step 2: Professional Educational Leadership is Key
Step 3: Hire, Retain, and Mentor Great Teachers
Step 4: Goals and Data
Step 5: Close the Achievement Gap
Step 6: Everyone Working Together
Step 7: School Funding
Step 8: Accurate, Timely, & Effective Communication"

David Hamm (entire questionaire http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A266470)
"In order to maintain a quality school system, we must keep and attract the best teachers and support personnel. The School Board and County Commissioners must invest in the future by continuing to increase not only the teacher supplements, but also staff supplements. As we all know, Chatham County Schools must compete daily with our neighboring school systems that provide substantially higher supplements that provide their teachers and staff members with additional money for their day-to-day living expenses. The current flat rate supplement system must be converted to a competitive percentage based supplement system. This would have to be supported by and through the County Commissioners."

[VAHeel]

"close the gap"

oh, gee, why didn't I think of that?

[joebloefromkokomo]

Thinkinaboudit, you never miss a chance to disparage me and I am sick of it.  My name is not coalition Kathie.  I am my own person, always have been, always will be.  I don't answer to anyone and I make my own decisions.  I previously emailed you privately and told you that you don't know me at all.  I also offered to meet you for lunch or coffee to discuss anything at all.  Although you never gave me the courtesy of a reply, that offer still stands.  If you don't have the fortitute to reveal your identity, although I know who you are, don't hide behind your cowardly moniker and criticize and put me down.  Meet me face to face and judge me for the person I am.  You don't know anything about me and your judgments based upon political differences are completely off base.  If you want to get to know me and then criticize me based upon the real facts, that is fine.  But doing it based on knowing NOTHING is completely without merit. 

The "moving" of the $450,000 was fully explained at the meeting and has been recapped by Turtle here.  Whoever Turtle is, I am very grateful that he or she has started attending our meetings, and I hope will continue.  Others should come too, so they can see the facts for themselves.  The money was switched to another fund to HELP the schools.  Since it is anticipated that the state will cut back our funds, we want the funds to come first out of state money for certain things like salaries, which we know they tend NOT to cut.  This will PROTECT our local funds to be used for other things.  It is simply a paper shuffle designed to save us money.  This is so easy to understand.  Unfortunately, Gerald often is unable to grasp these things in our meetings.  It is unfortunate and causes a lot of unnecessary work and arguing that should never have to be done.  In fact, our staff is getting worn out.  Would not suprise me if we lost good people because of these wranglings.  While making certain statements in meetings and newspapers might make you look good to the public, it does not make you an effective elected board member.  To be effective, you have to be able to work as a board to make good policy.  If you can't work together you can't be effective.  Any elected official needs to know how to work together.  So as a board member, do you choose to make big public announcements that make YOU look good but do nothing for our schools or our students, or do you choose to keep your personal feelings more circumspect and learn to work together with other board members so that you can accomplish good things for the schools?  You only need to look at the board to see who does what - so judge for yourselves.  Grandiose announcements may be all well and fine but if you are so difficult to work with that nobody trusts you, you are an ineffective board member.  Regardless of your fan base on the bulletin board.  Much better to be disliked and actually get some good things done, in my opinion - but that's just me.

And no, my bloomers are not choking.  What a sexist, stupid statement.  I am not going on a junket.  I am going to a professional meeting of my board in order to bring back information for the schools.  I am taking off work (I am self employed so any time missed directly affects my income) and I am working for free.  I am leaving my kids for a few days which I don't like to do.  I miss them terribly when I am gone.  This trip will cost me money.  Please illuminate me as to where I am getting some big windfall here?  Since vacations without my family don't interest me in the least, I don't see how anyone could call this a junket.  But I guess that wouldn't stop you, since you know nothing about me.

As far as your comments regarding my job as an attorney representing my client, I will not dignify those with a response save to say that you have no idea, once again, of what you are talking about and I will represent the interests of ALL of my clients, which include all kinds of people and companies with all kinds of political affiliations, aggressively and to the best of my ability.  I should hope you would expect the same of your attorney.

As far as Gerald, no, I do not get my exercise jumping to conclusions, and your constant use of such idioms is long worn thin.  I have not engaged in the congnitive distortion of going beyond the evidence that exists in order to reach a conclusion that makes things look worse than they are.  I have simply stated the facts as told to me by you or as they exist in the public record.  You went to Disney, you paid for it yourself.  Big deal.  How I get my exercise is none of your business and please limit your comments to our professional relationship and not to my personal attributes. 

good job, kathie.  i am so sick and tired of the ranting and rambling.  all this ranting has been going on for years.  at least two superintendents ago.  there were  all kinds of innuendos and nasty insinuations made about board members traveling together and the superintendent.  things like "who would room with who" and other stupid and plain nasty comments.  i can't remember exactly where the board  was traveling .  it seems like it was california.  anyway, some things never change.

i agree with you about losing staff because of all the cr*p that goes on.  more than once the col. has eaten crow because of jumping to conclusions and making unfounded and ridiculous statements and accusations.  these type of actions are  past the point of getting old and have been out of control for a long time.

[dkemom2]

Joe,

I spent over $200. out of my own pocket this past weekend to clean up the filthy gym at Northwood.

So yes, these trips do bother me at a time when teachers are on here asking for the smallest of things to be funded through Donorschoose.

I don't see the benefit.

I would like to know some of the things that have been brought back from these trips that have actually been implemented.

And what you don't know is that in the past these trips were abused, with spouses going along (at the cost to the county) and double dipping on things like meals and meetings attended.
Yes, those days are in the past NOW. But some of the "complaining" over the years had merit.

In tough economic times, travel outside the state should be halted.  It sends a bad message.  I see more value with Logan and staff members going than I do BOE members.

[Snowball]

Explain what you mean by "double dipping."

[dkemom2]

Like when the county is paying for something like meals on the credit card or they're part of your hotel cost and when you get back you submit receipts to be reimbursed for meals.

Or you get paid a stipend per day, but also a "per meeting attended" pay.  You sign up for meetings you don't attend, say you did, and get paid for them.

Sure this is "little" stuff, in the big picture of things, but it is just the sort of stuff that gets peoples goats.

No, I don't think this is happening any more, but if you ever get an opportunity to talk to someone who will tell you the real skinny about how screwed up and crooked things were for decades, take the time to listen.  The BOE knows.  Harts administration spent a lot of time undoing decades of screw ups.  And Logan has come in, continued the task plus fixing a few things left behind by Hart.

I am thankful it is NOT that way any longer.  I am pleased with Logan overall.  I still don't agree with travel to the other side of the country to "learn" something I feel somehow, somewhere is either available in our own back yard or really not necessary at all.  We haven't even implement the simplest of things like a magnet or year round school.  We can't seem to fix our AG or EC programs...if there's a magic wand in California for those two things, then I'll pay for the plane ticket.

Stay home, save the money for development in one of those two much needed areas.  I know a couple of EC teachers who need and deserve a trip to the coast to garner more about their task of dealing one on one with kids.  Then they could come back and teach their peers.  I just will never see the benefit of BOE members attending these things. 

[VAHeel]

there's probably funding available for those kinds of things, too, just so you know.

I have to admit I resent it when I hear you talking about "fixing" our AG or EC departments.  I'm sure you don't mean it that way, though.

I don't think Chatham has a large enough student population to support something like a magnet school (lots of kids, but are there enough kids interested in one thing to fill a whole magnet school) or to warrant year round schools.

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