AG / EC Programs

[kimmimom]

meg, the AG program at Harrison is totally different now.  In the 4th grade (and I think other grades too, but I will only speak about 4th since I have a child in it), they are doing differentitation.  The kids take a math pretest and separate them into 4 (make that 3 since the waiver was denied and we are losing a 4th grade teacher this week to teach a combo 1/2 class) and they are separated based on their abilities.  They do this with every new math unit, so the kids are mixed in with others who grasp the concepts in a similar way that they do (so the child who has a firm grasp on a topic does not have to listen to the basics being gone over and get bored).  They have done reading assessments (I can't recall how often they will do these) and the children are again grouped into ability groups.  I know the AG teacher is helping with those reading groups. Seems like a good thing and will prepare them for changing classes and working with others than just those in their homerooms.

[girlfrompbo]

That sounds wonderful!  I especially like that they regroup at the beginning of every unit.

meg, the AG program at Harrison is totally different now.  In the 4th grade (and I think other grades too, but I will only speak about 4th since I have a child in it), they are doing differentitation.  The kids take a math pretest and separate them into 4 (make that 3 since the waiver was denied and we are losing a 4th grade teacher this week to teach a combo 1/2 class) and they are separated based on their abilities.  They do this with every new math unit, so the kids are mixed in with others who grasp the concepts in a similar way that they do (so the child who has a firm grasp on a topic does not have to listen to the basics being gone over and get bored).  They have done reading assessments (I can't recall how often they will do these) and the children are again grouped into ability groups.  I know the AG teacher is helping with those reading groups. Seems like a good thing and will prepare them for changing classes and working with others than just those in their homerooms.

This sounds like ability-based tracking which is terrific for your AIG kid and not so great for the average or below-average kids.

[girlfrompbo]

It's the best version of ability-based tracking there is, but does it defy the research about tracking and student achievement?  The children in the low groups are missing out on the chance to learn from their higher-functioning peers.

If it works it works and more power to PHS, but I've seen enough research to get real suspicious about any kind of tracking program.

[Everett McGill]

Let's try an experiment.  The subject title is an important subject matter is gobbling up  another thread.

Gene has agreed to break the material out this evening.  Instead of Gene working this evening to break out posts, How about each author move their own post as they see fit.  Then delete them from the thread about "BOE / Central Office Travel". 

  May be more effiecient.  May not offend anyone for anything of theirs not being where they want it. 

 Maybe - Just an idea   Maybe not a good one - Just trying to get the threads separated.

[kimmimom]

from what my daughter has said, she is not in the same math group each unit, thus the kids are mixed up.  I am sure there are some kids that are always in the lowest group and some always in the highest group, but there is definite shuffling of the kids.

As for the 3th grade teacher you were speaking of, Mia, the only way this works is that is a grade-level concept.  At PHS, all 4th graders, no matter what homeroom they are in, are grouped together based on their pretests.  I don't think 1 teacher could handle doing 3, 4, 5 different lesson plans, but when they group at the "4th grade team" it seems to work.  Another advantage is the kids are getting to learn from different teachers, since they change groups quite often.   

[girlfrompbo]

my knee-jerk reaction may have been wrong.  I don't think using caution hurts when it comes to tracking, but hopefully the talented and committed teachers at PHS are already doing so.  Farbeit from me to hear one tiny thing and jump to a negative conclusion.

[VAHeel]

I also think it's important to not track in every subject.  In the world of standardized tests, I think it can be helpful in math and reading (lower students may  not see the good example of critical thinking from the upper students, but they are more likely to get the time and attention they need to master the basics,) but I don't think it should go on forever/all the time.

I am excited to hear about it in PHS, though.

[munn5]

I don't think 1 teacher could handle doing 3, 4, 5 different lesson plans

When you hear the phrase "differentiated instruction" this is basically what is meant - in one classroom, the teacher needs to do instruction and make assignments at many different levels, so that kids are taught on their own level.

[VAHeel]

yawp.  it's hard as heck, too!!

I don't think 1 teacher could handle doing 3, 4, 5 different lesson plans

When you hear the phrase "differentiated instruction" this is basically what is meant - in one classroom, the teacher needs to do instruction and make assignments at many different levels, so that kids are taught on their own level.

[kimmimom]

that is what I love about the team teaching in 4th grade for math and reading.  each teacher only has to come up with 1 lesson plan for their group of students that are about the same level. I would think trying to do differentiated teaching in 1 classroom by 1 teacher would be VERY difficult. 

[munn5]

I agree that it can be detrimental to track a child into a low group, where the expectations are low, and the child may never really reach grade level. But, all kids learn best when the instruction is pitched to their level (not too far above what they understand, and not too easy). It sounds like Perry Harrison has dynamic grouping based on frequent pretests, so that all kids get instruction that will help them progress. This is a best practice, and all of our schools should be doing this. A child moves between groups based on his actual knowledge/skills/abilities on a given topic.

I was at a meeting with a 3rd grade teacher last night. She said her class's reading ability ranged from level 7 to level 44. I believe this means her student are reading on early 1st grade through late 4th grade levels. To group her (let's say 21) students into instructional groups that are close to each child's level will be impossible. And the more groups she has, the less time each student is getting actual instruction.

(Moved from other thread)

[kimmimom]

I clarified with my 4th grader this morning if she was in the same group of kids every math group (meaning basically the kids always tested similarly) and she said no, it really is mixed up.  So if they aren't strong in one math topic, the kids may test higher in another topic and be in the "higher" group.  Of course the teachers do not tell them who is in a "high" group or "low group".  The 3 teachers (was 4 and all 4 were great) at PHS are doing an exceptional job and I would like to pubically thank Ms Pike, Mr. Thomas and Ms. Tompkins, current 4th grade teachers, as well as Ms. Cuthbert who also did a great job, but now is teaching a first grade class as of today.

[dkemom2]

Kmom

WARNING: This is a highjack.

I see were all the other waivers were approved, even for Northwood where kids sit on the floor in my daughters Honor Alg. 2 class because there are so many kids (33, I think).  What's up with that?  Why not a waiver for Harrison?  Did they give the details?

So NOW these classes much be split?  Or am I confused (as is the case a lot more often)

[munn5]

Kmom

WARNING: This is a highjack.

I see were all the other waivers were approved, even for Northwood where kids sit on the floor in my daughters Honor Alg. 2 class because there are so many kids (33, I think).  What's up with that?  Why not a waiver for Harrison?  Did they give the details?

So NOW these classes much be split?  Or am I confused (as is the case a lot more often)

Based on the discussion at the BOE meeting back in Oct, this is the outcome I expected. Bennett only has one class per grade, so they would have to disrupt the entire 1st and 2nd grades to make two grade 1/2 classes. Silk Hope and Northwood would have had to redo large parts of the schedule (multiple students, teachers and periods) to make the classes compliant, and it might not have been possible without causing other classes to be out of compliance. For Northwood this is even more problamatic because of the block schedule - you would be rearranging the schedule halfway through the courses. Harrison had a fairly simple, though unpopular, solution, because there are multiple classes per grade, and because one grade (4th) was significantly under the class sizes so those classes could be rearranged.

[VAHeel]

Northwood could've fixed the problem by hiring an extra teacher, or asking one of the current teachers to teach during their planning period for extra pay (much less expensive than hiring another teacher.)

The class sizes in Algebra II are detrimental to learning in what is already a difficult course. 

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